Kane would get you past Tampa, Kakko can't and next year the same would hold true. Kane is lights out in the playoffs and throw him in the top 6 in new york and they would be insane. All depends what a cup is worth to a team that hasn't seen a cup in many years.

So you're saying trading for Kane GUARANTEES the Rangers a cup? I doubt that. Rather have a 21 year old Kakko on the team for the next 5 to 10 years than roll those dice.

Yes, but Murphy is worth a mid to late 1st and a 3rd if it's a late first. I figured Knies is worth that plus the 2nd (Mrazek dump) so that's where the trade idea came from, but again, I think Knies is a top 6 player, I just don't see him as a franchise player or hold him in high as regard as some people do.

The situation in Toronto contextually what you're saying makes sense but Cat for Knies value in a silo on paper, Cat all day and it's not close.

I'm saying Kane is a huge upgrade at RW for the Rangers and he's a game changer there is no question about it; he could easily push the Rangers past Tampa. Then plug in Panarin and he have obvious chemistry on the ice, those two together with Strome in the middle would be a deadly line, almost impossible to stop. Colorado would have a really hard time stopping that line.

KK is not even close to Kane right now and he's developing slowly, has been underwhelming considering what the expectations were when he was drafted and where he drafted at. For a team competing, every team in their right mind would take Kane over KK in a cup run this year and next year because a real chance at the cup doesn't come very often...you take that chance with everything you've got versus worrying about the team in 5 years. Look at the moves TBL have made to maximize the window, Hawks did the same thing which is why Panarin was let go as well as Tuevo Terenvainen

He was on the pk this season two. That tells me that there is more to his game

Too

That's interesting. I don't watch Chicago as much as a fan would, but I watch a ton of hockey, and I watched alot of the Blackhawks this year. Most of it was because I was critical of the Jones trade- more for the fact that I didn't think they were good enough overall to be making a trade that involved futures- so I wanted to see how it would turn out. Another part was definitely the off-ice and see how that would look on the ice. And then a big part was DeBrincat. He's big in parts of the Leafs fan base because many wanted him at the draft. And if you believe the reporting, it was a big issue amongst leafs management/scouting. So I always tune in for him. I got admit though, being good defensively is not something I attribute to him. I believe in valuing players for what they are, so it's not even a knock, but I don't see the defense in him at all.

Definitely. There may be some inflation to his offense too since he plays with Kane. But there is something to be said for a player that can keep up with Kane's creativity and pace, and he immediately had the confidence to not be intimidated by a player like Kane. A lot young players seem to get star struck playing with the guys they grew up watching. Cat just jumped right in and was like "I'm good at hockey too. So, what are we doing? Lets score some goals." haha

No question it's a huge upgrade, but I agree with op that is way too much for a rental. We just don't see these kinds of trades for 1yr players. Teams like TB take chances, but they have proof of concept, and for NYR it's only been one year. And honestly TB example does not fit. They never do those trades for rentals, and those cap hits. I don't even know if Kane can fit on a NYR team next yr if Strome is signed.

Do you understand that trading for Kane means a 1 year rental? Do you get that basic concept? It has nothing to do with Kane's skill, and everything to do with HOW LONG he will be on the team. Not giving up a 21 year old with Kakko's potential for ANY player for a 1 year rental. If you don't understand that then there isn't anything else to say.

Of course Knies is not a franchise player, but he's still an across-the-board A prospect. The cost of that is not a 2nd and 3rd.

Yeah there is no question about Cat > Knies on paper. But the context is key. Fit in terms of window, assets, cap, lineup needs, etc. is everything. Cats fit is more for the coming teams like NJ and LA, (and I guess buffalo and Ottawa if you believe their fan base), or the pivoting teams that are doing a shake-up/have money coming off this year and/or next. So Philly, Pittsburgh, Carolina (maybe). Of course when a player like him is available every team is interested, and it's imperative they assess their position and look into it, but for it to fit, realistically it's not every team. That's the reality with a soft cap.

Well, being a top line forward, he isn't on the ice for a ton of defensive time, but when it calls for it, his two way game is solid and is very defensively responsible. He is good on the PK, transitions well, is quick on the back check, can strip pucks, not afraid to get in board battles, he is strong, can hit and take hits, and can move the puck well. Yes you want to value players on what they are, and what I am saying is that is part of his game that a lot of people miss. He definitely isn't a defensive dynamo, but he isn't just some "offense only" defensive liability, especially for his size. He works hard out there in every zone.

I think you missed my point.

Murphy = 1st and 3rd
Mrazek = -2nd round pick

So effectively Knies is returning a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd rounder in this trade. I don't think Knies is really worth that much more; that's a heck of return for a player that has never played pro and where he was drafted. I get he's shown up well in the NCAA but again, is a he truly a top 6 player and in what capacity, driving a line or complimenting a line? Hard to say

You can see I'm a veteran on this site and am well aware of what a 1 year rental is, a little deductive reasoning would help you make that conclusion instead of trying to talk down to me.

You can also see what that Kane has a NMC meaning, if he were to waive to go to the rangers that means the rangers have the leg up to resign him after a year and a very good chance Kane would; even sign an extension. Regardless, at the same time, KK is not living up to anywhere near his potential and in another year will be a dissapointment and for a team hitting their prime it might be worth the risk versus a rebuilding team it may. Meanwhile, Kane 1000% moves the needle to get a cup back in NY whereas now KK does not and hard to say if he ever will. He's like Dach, both players are not living up to their potential and could end up being relative busts. Watch in 2 more years if KK turns out to be what he is now, you'll be saying "what if" and that's the point of the proposal. For a player drafted so high, be it Dach or KK, now is the time to consider a trade for someone who moves the needle while they still have a fair amount of value, be it for different reasons (cup run vs. rebuidl) but nevertheless as been discussed in the case of both players by the analysts.

Now you may think KK is going to be an elite player in the league still, good for you and that's your opinion but there are plenty that say he's never going to be that or even able to drive his own line. That's the luxury of having subjective opinions on prospects and young players, nobody knows how it's going to turn out and you don't either.

You obviously don't understand basic math. The Rangers have no cap space for Miller going forward, and they are not moving out players to try to create cap space for him. This is a math problem a 3rd grader could understand, why can't you?

Torontos window doesnt close after this year, or the next, or the next....

Their window is not over in 2-3 years.... unless Matthews doesnt resign.... Torontos window is open as long as hes in town

You never know given the last 5 years. If another year of first round exists happens it's hard to say what Toronto does. Teams always need to capitalize when they are close to making a run, injuries, change in GM, coach, players retiring, etc. things happen.

Things certainly can change, but what teams window closed when their top 5 player in the league was in the prime of his career?

Who's to say if the leafs falter again, they don't go into a rebuild and trade Matthews in his last year? Teams have done that before, moved their top players when they keep faltering.