Forums/Armchair-GM

do we trade guys out at the TDL this year or what

Créé par: Borocop
Date de création initiale: 6 déc. 2021
Publié: 6 déc. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Sénateurs d'Ottawa
Explications
personally id move like maybe 1 or 2 guys, at this stage in the rebuild I think its more important to play a full season with the vets even if they're not in the playoff picture. I think itll benefit the team more than the picks theyll get for some of these guys.

I think we move out like tierney, maybe mete and josh brown if theres any takers.

Also white is supposed to be back at some point which is why hes in the lineup
Transactions
1.
OTT
  1. 2022 3e round pick (CGY)
does boston want a 3c? i thought they might and he kind of just seems like a bruin tbh, could retain if necessary or maybe take a contract back or smthn
BOS
  1. Tierney, Chris
2.
OTT
  1. 2022 5e round pick (BUF)
seems like a nice guy, just gets lots in space a lot
SJS
  1. Mete, Victor
3.
OTT
  1. 2022 6e round pick (EDM)
big and strong, can go anywhere, not just necessarily edmonton
EDM
  1. Brown, Joshua (500 000 $ retained)
Rachats de contrats
  • Bobby Ryan: 3 583 333 $
  • Dion Phaneuf: 354 167 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Joshua Brown: 500 000 $ (41.67%)
Enfoui
  • Matt Murray: 5 125 000 $ (6 250 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
OTT
OTT
TBL
OTT
BOS
VAN
CGY
OTT
BUF
OTT
EDM
OTT
NYI
2023
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
NSH
2024
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $65 452 340 $0 $4 932 500 $16 047 660 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
OTT
Tkachuk, Brady
8 330 674 $
AG, C
UFA - 7
OTT
Norris, Joshua
925 000 $
C
RFA - 1
OTT
Batherson, Drake
4 975 000 $
AD
UFA - 6
OTT
Sanford, Zachary
2 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
OTT
White, Colin
4 750 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 4
OTT
Brown, Connor
3 600 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
OTT
Paul, Nicholas
1 350 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
OTT
Stützle, Tim
925 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 2
OTT
Ennis, Tyler
900 000 $
C, AG, AD
UFA - 1
OTT
Formenton, Alex
747 500 $
AG
RFA - 1
OTT
Gambrell, Dylan
1 100 000 $
C
RFA - 1
OTT
Gaudette, Adam
997 500 $
C
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
OTT
Chabot, Thomas
8 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 7
OTT
Zub, Artem
2 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
OTT
Forsberg, Anton
900 000 $
G
UFA - 1
OTT
Brännström, Erik
863 333 $
DD
RFA - 1
OTT
Zaitsev, Nikita
4 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
OTT
Gustavsson, Filip
787 500 $
G
RFA - 2
OTT
Heatherington, Dillon
750 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
OTT
Thomson, Lassi
863 333 $
DD
RFA - 3
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
OTT
Watson, Austin
1 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
OTT
Pinto, Shane
925 000 $
C
RFA - 2
OTT
Del Zotto, Michael
2 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
OTT
Holden, Nick
1 700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1

Code d'intégration

  • Pour afficher cette équipe sur un autre site Web ou blog, ajoutez ce iFrame à la page appropriée
  • Personnalisez les dimensions dans le code IFrame ci-dessous pour adapter votre site de manière appropriée. Minimum recommandé: 400px.

Texte intégré

Cliquer pour surligner
6 déc. 2021 à 11 h 47
#1
Quaaludes
Rejoint: sept. 2021
Messages: 1,431
Mentions "j'aime": 695
We really need another defenseman who gets lost a lot
Borocop et csick a aimé ceci.
6 déc. 2021 à 11 h 49
#2
Démarrer sujet
Wayne Glensky
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 3,064
Mentions "j'aime": 2,005
Quoting: gary_bettman
We really need another defenseman who gets lost a lot


every team needs to hit their quota otherwise the NHL may implode
csick, gary_bettman et chiddie a aimé ceci.
6 déc. 2021 à 11 h 54
#3
KFTW
Rejoint: juill. 2018
Messages: 26,109
Mentions "j'aime": 12,298
Quoting: Borocop
every team needs to hit their quota otherwise the NHL may implode


I would move Connor Brown or Nick Paul also but only if a team is desperate and offering a lot
Borocop a aimé ceci.
6 déc. 2021 à 11 h 55
#4
Démarrer sujet
Wayne Glensky
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 3,064
Mentions "j'aime": 2,005
Quoting: csick
I would move Connor Brown or Nick Paul also but only if a team is desperate and offering a lot


kind of my thoughts as. well, unless were getting top value for them id rather just keep them around
6 déc. 2021 à 12 h 20
#5
Rejoint: juill. 2016
Messages: 2,078
Mentions "j'aime": 876
Get absolutely what you can for :

Chris Tierney
Zach Sanford
Dylan Gambrell
Nick Holden
Anton Forsberg
Joshua Brown

Keep Heatherington, Mete and Gaudette as depth guys for another year

Quoting: csick
I would move Connor Brown or Nick Paul also but only if a team is desperate and offering a lot


I understand why you think this but have to be careful here

Batherson : 5 years left
Chabot : 6 years left
Tkachuk : 6 years left

That is the situation after this season where we won't make the playoffs. This is basically "the window" to contend. Considering that it might take a few years before actually being good in the playoffs, how many years will we really have? lol

I know it's pretty cynical to look at it this way but that's the reality IF nothing changes in ownership. Melnyk selling the team to new owners who would build an arena downtown would change everything but can't bank on this scenario for now

Until then, trading Brown and Paul is counter productive in terms of making this team competitive tomorrow. "Futures" are nice but we are loaded with them and late 1st round picks and 2nd round picks won't help for years...

Really have to consider this
Edmund0 a aimé ceci.
6 déc. 2021 à 12 h 25
#6
Nathan
Rejoint: avr. 2021
Messages: 102
Mentions "j'aime": 22
we dont want a 3c we need a 2c but a guy like connor brown or zach sanford may be a possibility
Borocop et NDoody a aimé ceci.
6 déc. 2021 à 12 h 41
#7
Démarrer sujet
Wayne Glensky
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 3,064
Mentions "j'aime": 2,005
Quoting: Schood1c
we dont want a 3c we need a 2c but a guy like connor brown or zach sanford may be a possibility


sanford could be had but id probably avoid selling connor brown
6 déc. 2021 à 12 h 44
#8
Démarrer sujet
Wayne Glensky
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 3,064
Mentions "j'aime": 2,005
Quoting: Xspyrit
Get absolutely what you can for :

Chris Tierney
Zach Sanford
Dylan Gambrell
Nick Holden
Anton Forsberg
Joshua Brown

Keep Heatherington, Mete and Gaudette as depth guys for another year



I understand why you think this but have to be careful here

Batherson : 5 years left
Chabot : 6 years left
Tkachuk : 6 years left

That is the situation after this season where we won't make the playoffs. This is basically "the window" to contend. Considering that it might take a few years before actually being good in the playoffs, how many years will we really have? lol

I know it's pretty cynical to look at it this way but that's the reality IF nothing changes in ownership. Melnyk selling the team to new owners who would build an arena downtown would change everything but can't bank on this scenario for now

Until then, trading Brown and Paul is counter productive in terms of making this team competitive tomorrow. "Futures" are nice but we are loaded with them and late 1st round picks and 2nd round picks won't help for years...

Really have to consider this


im a bit torn on sanford, i think the sens could use a big guy with some skill to play up and down the lineup. Unless mete turns it around in a but hes my #1 on the gone list with josh brown, hes been a detriment both on offense and defnese this year with horrible turnovers on both ends of the ice and has forgotten how to transition the puck.

If we sell connor brown it needs to be for a ready now prospect /young player otherwise im with you theres no need to move him
6 déc. 2021 à 12 h 53
#9
KFTW
Rejoint: juill. 2018
Messages: 26,109
Mentions "j'aime": 12,298
Quoting: Xspyrit
Get absolutely what you can for :

Chris Tierney
Zach Sanford
Dylan Gambrell
Nick Holden
Anton Forsberg
Joshua Brown

Keep Heatherington, Mete and Gaudette as depth guys for another year



I understand why you think this but have to be careful here

Batherson : 5 years left
Chabot : 6 years left
Tkachuk : 6 years left

That is the situation after this season where we won't make the playoffs. This is basically "the window" to contend. Considering that it might take a few years before actually being good in the playoffs, how many years will we really have? lol

I know it's pretty cynical to look at it this way but that's the reality IF nothing changes in ownership. Melnyk selling the team to new owners who would build an arena downtown would change everything but can't bank on this scenario for now

Until then, trading Brown and Paul is counter productive in terms of making this team competitive tomorrow. "Futures" are nice but we are loaded with them and late 1st round picks and 2nd round picks won't help for years...

Really have to consider this


I just can’t see us giving a 30 year old Connor Brown 6 years at 5 mill per
6 déc. 2021 à 14 h 27
#10
Rejoint: août 2019
Messages: 529
Mentions "j'aime": 263
Quoting: Xspyrit
Get absolutely what you can for :

Chris Tierney
Zach Sanford
Dylan Gambrell
Nick Holden
Anton Forsberg
Joshua Brown

Keep Heatherington, Mete and Gaudette as depth guys for another year



I understand why you think this but have to be careful here

Batherson : 5 years left
Chabot : 6 years left
Tkachuk : 6 years left

That is the situation after this season where we won't make the playoffs. This is basically "the window" to contend. Considering that it might take a few years before actually being good in the playoffs, how many years will we really have? lol

I know it's pretty cynical to look at it this way but that's the reality IF nothing changes in ownership. Melnyk selling the team to new owners who would build an arena downtown would change everything but can't bank on this scenario for now

Until then, trading Brown and Paul is counter productive in terms of making this team competitive tomorrow. "Futures" are nice but we are loaded with them and late 1st round picks and 2nd round picks won't help for years...

Really have to consider this


I think it really all depends on the numbers they want. Both Brown and Paul would be great players to keep that are happy in OTT, but with the contracts already out and the ones coming for Stuztle, JDB, Thompson, Sanderson, it might be hard to keep the numbers in the right place.

I Feel like they should both be able to bring back good pieces but are they better than having both those players as the foundation for a solid Third line.

Formenton - Paul - C Brown. It would be hard for Sens to beat that as their third line.
Borocop a aimé ceci.
6 déc. 2021 à 14 h 32
#11
Démarrer sujet
Wayne Glensky
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 3,064
Mentions "j'aime": 2,005
Quoting: NDoody
I think it really all depends on the numbers they want. Both Brown and Paul would be great players to keep that are happy in OTT, but with the contracts already out and the ones coming for Stuztle, JDB, Thompson, Sanderson, it might be hard to keep the numbers in the right place.

I Feel like they should both be able to bring back good pieces but are they better than having both those players as the foundation for a solid Third line.

Formenton - Paul - C Brown. It would be hard for Sens to beat that as their third line.


i think they should have the cap to extend those guys though even at higher price tags. zatisev, MDZ, murray, watson and white deals all either come off the books or can be moved reasonably easy before a thomson, gustavsson, stutzle and sanderson extensions. cap should also go up over that time as well, and honeslty not all of them are going to get paid a ton off their ELC's.

obviously the numbers have to be right and signing them to longer-term high cap hit dollars is un-necessary, but i think the space should exist to keep them around
6 déc. 2021 à 15 h 22
#12
It Is Umlaut Season
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 594
Mentions "j'aime": 214
Quoting: Xspyrit
Until then, trading Brown and Paul is counter productive in terms of making this team competitive tomorrow. "Futures" are nice but we are loaded with them and late 1st round picks and 2nd round picks won't help for years...


Is it really though?

Paul has never scored more than 20 points (<30 point pace) and is currently having a very rough year both offensively (0.18 PPG) and defensively (2.5 xGA/60, 3.79 GA/60). He also put up those points in previous seasons whilst having generous deployment alongside solid linemates (top 5 through 2019-2021 are Connor Brown, Colin White, Evgeni Dadonov, Chris Tierney and JG Pageau). As he drops in responsibility once the team gets better, he looks to drop in points too. After all, he puts up 0.8 P/60 this year at 5v5 while playing 17 minutes total a game. Watch when he drops to 13 minutes. And I could go on and on about how he's not, nor should be, a center but I digress. Nick Paul is a bottom 6 winger who is best suited to play as a 4LW on a good team. So if a team is willing to treat him like a Barclay Goodrow and wants to overpay for him, by all means: bye Nick!

Connor Brown's a bit different as he's actually a great player who produces and does well defensively. He would be awesome to have on our third line when the team is contending. That being said, he's coming up to the end of his deal and has had three straight seasons of ~50 point paces and percentage benders. We gave Brady $8.2M for three straight seasons of 50 point paces, so what is Brown going to ask for given he's actually competent defensively? Certainly not $8M, but even $5M is too much to give a 3rd liner. If he wants to sign a more realistic deal and comprehends that his point totals are a function of giving him more responsibility than he will ever have elsewhere or will have with the team in the next few years, then great. Otherwise, he's better sent out so he isn't lost for free.

You're right that 1st round picks and 2nd rounders aren't immediately helpful, but they can be repackaged into deals for pieces that serve the team well now and into the future without overpaying or overvaluing.

And besides, the team is still probably two years away from making real noise, if not longer.
Borocop a aimé ceci.
6 déc. 2021 à 17 h 6
#13
Rejoint: juill. 2016
Messages: 2,078
Mentions "j'aime": 876
Quoting: csick
I just can’t see us giving a 30 year old Connor Brown 6 years at 5 mill per


Connor Brown is 27 years old right now and turns 28 next month. He'll still be a "young 29" when his contract ends. If you can get him for 4-5 years under 5.0 you do it. There's 2 things to consider in his case :

- he is a PLUS skater, as long as he's healthy, he's not going to slow down overnight

- he has been relatively healthy his whole career.

Quoting: Borocop
Unless mete turns it around in a but hes my #1 on the gone list with josh brown, hes been a detriment both on offense and defnese this year with horrible turnovers on both ends of the ice and has forgotten how to transition the puck.


To Victor Mete's defense, he has mostly played with Nikita Zaitsev and Josh Brown and both have been absolutely terrible this season.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?select=D&defenseman=OTT%3A4652%3AVICTOR%3AMETE&games=2021-2022%3AR%3A99&period=ALL&situation=ALL

The problem in Ottawa is that there's no #2 and no #4. You have a #1 (Chabot), a #3 (Zub), a bipolar #5 (Zaitsev) and a bunch of #6 and #7

These 2 huge holes in the top-4 literally puts everyone in trouble

Personally, I wouldn't mind having him as the #7 next season as he's young, cheap, very fast and usually very good in zone exits. You'd rather have him be a healthy scratch rather than JBD, Brannstrom or Thomson

Chabot
Sanderson
Zub
Thomson
Brannstrom
JBD
Del Zotto

Although we'll already have MDZ who will be an expensive #7
6 déc. 2021 à 17 h 26
#14
Rejoint: juill. 2016
Messages: 2,078
Mentions "j'aime": 876
Modifié 6 déc. 2021 à 17 h 34
Quoting: NDoody
I think it really all depends on the numbers they want. Both Brown and Paul would be great players to keep that are happy in OTT, but with the contracts already out and the ones coming for Stuztle, JDB, Thompson, Sanderson, it might be hard to keep the numbers in the right place.

I Feel like they should both be able to bring back good pieces but are they better than having both those players as the foundation for a solid Third line.

Formenton - Paul - C Brown. It would be hard for Sens to beat that as their third line.


Paul is not efficient as a center, it brings much more defensive responsibility and as a very big body, he doesn't have the + skating required to play his shutdown game as well. It,s a guy who needs to be LW in your bottom-6, that's how he adds value to your lineup, not in the top-6 or not as a center.

Paul - Pinto - Brown

If Pinto didn't miss a whole season I would probably think differently but it is what it is. That line could be great

Quoting: Claebom
Is it really though?

Paul has never scored more than 20 points (<30 point pace) and is currently having a very rough year both offensively (0.18 PPG) and defensively (2.5 xGA/60, 3.79 GA/60). He also put up those points in previous seasons whilst having generous deployment alongside solid linemates (top 5 through 2019-2021 are Connor Brown, Colin White, Evgeni Dadonov, Chris Tierney and JG Pageau). As he drops in responsibility once the team gets better, he looks to drop in points too. After all, he puts up 0.8 P/60 this year at 5v5 while playing 17 minutes total a game. Watch when he drops to 13 minutes. And I could go on and on about how he's not, nor should be, a center but I digress. Nick Paul is a bottom 6 winger who is best suited to play as a 4LW on a good team. So if a team is willing to treat him like a Barclay Goodrow and wants to overpay for him, by all means: bye Nick!


No I agree, he's not a center and it's a big reason why he's having a rough year. Pinto and White injuries have hurt him more than anyone else. He needs to be LW for one of these guys with Connor Brown on the other wing so Paul could play his game. His value is not really in his point production and never will. Think about a Paul Gaustad but unfortunately from the wing, which is also why he won't cost an arm and leg to extend. Gaustad was taking 4-5% in C.H.% so let's say Paul gets 3.5% which would be about 2.8 AAV

I have stressed a lot (maybe not on CF) about the importance of having a strong bottom-6 forward group. Guys like Brown, White, Paul and Formenton will be key for having that, Angus Crookshank too

Quoting: Claebom
Connor Brown's a bit different as he's actually a great player who produces and does well defensively. He would be awesome to have on our third line when the team is contending. That being said, he's coming up to the end of his deal and has had three straight seasons of ~50 point paces and percentage benders. We gave Brady $8.2M for three straight seasons of 50 point paces, so what is Brown going to ask for given he's actually competent defensively? Certainly not $8M, but even $5M is too much to give a 3rd liner. If he wants to sign a more realistic deal and comprehends that his point totals are a function of giving him more responsibility than he will ever have elsewhere or will have with the team in the next few years, then great. Otherwise, he's better sent out so he isn't lost for free.


Connor Brown is not really a "3rd liner" though and teams know that. They have a completely different way of looking at this than the average fan. He's a matchup forward who excels at EV/PK hockey. Most of his production comes from that. I will just copy/paste the link for my Connor Brown facts if you want to look at them (but you probably know a few of them but look at post #15 in the link below)

I don't see Connor Brown asking for a huge payday, For comparables, you'd have to look at Pageau and Danault for example but they are centers so a tad bit less than them. Actually a 5 years contract like Batherson AAV would be great

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/529490?post_id=2796040

Quoting: Claebom
You're right that 1st round picks and 2nd rounders aren't immediately helpful, but they can be repackaged into deals for pieces that serve the team well now and into the future without overpaying or overvaluing.

And besides, the team is still probably two years away from making real noise, if not longer.


Problem with that is that we'd have to rely on Dorion being a good GM... Not expecting him to acquire a Reinhart, Arvidsson, Buchnevich or Devon Toews with these assets.

And the team years away from making real noise is exactly the problem. Chabot turns 25 y/o this season... Do we want to wait until he's 28-29 y/o before truly competing? That'd be quite pathetic. Batherson, Tkachuk and Norris (future) contracts will also start consuming themselves
6 déc. 2021 à 17 h 30
#15
Rejoint: févr. 2017
Messages: 149
Mentions "j'aime": 16
No, we don't want a 3c. We want a 2c & 1LD
7 déc. 2021 à 14 h 21
#16
Démarrer sujet
Wayne Glensky
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 3,064
Mentions "j'aime": 2,005
Quoting: BrNez
No, we don't want a 3c. We want a 2c & 1LD


noted 3c, i mean 2c chris tierney is headed to boston in that deal tho
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Ajouter une option
Supprimer une option
Soumettre le sondage