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Vancouver Canucks signed Jason Dickinson (3 Years / $2,650,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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15 aoû à 12 h 56
#51
I make Articals.
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Quoting: pharrow
It's a decent deal for VAN.
I think people on here are wanting to hand guys way to much money. Pettersson isn't even a PPG player. But people wanting to throw him insane money. He is close to a 30 goal guy though if not already one. But he has some injury issues. My guess is he goes in the 7s.
Hughes on the other hand. You take away the PP and his game really suffers. 64% starts in the Ozone and a 50% corsi. But people want to hand him 8-9 million. Are you kidding me. He shouldn't get that. My guess is 5-6 range is a fair value. He's a one trick pony. His corsi sucks, he's bleeding goals against in even strength play and 5v5 play. He's just not a very complete defenseman at this point. People are too obsessed with points and not looking at the whole player.


Only Canucks fans get how good he is.

He’s not worth 9, but 7-8.9
rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 12 h 58
#52
I make Articals.
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Quoting: BCAPP
9 mil for Hughes is a huge overpayment


Overpayment. Not huge overpayment.
15 aoû à 14 h 50
#53
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Quoting: Tntpod
Only Canucks fans get how good he is.

He’s not worth 9, but 7-8.9


no one is saying he's not a "good player" but you pay guys for what they did. It's a business. You don't just go throwing money around because you like a guy. You can't build a winning team that way.
Tntpod a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 14 h 53
#54
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Quoting: drewjenkins
In this example ... Vancouver's top 13 contracts take up $5,200,000 more cap-space than Toronto's top 13 players.

And I would argue (correctly) that Toronto's listed top 13 are significantly better than Vancouvers.

Despite this, Vancouver will have $5,200,000 less cap-space to fill out the final 10 roster spots.

And if Pettersson + Hughes don't sign bridge deals this will be even more lopsided next year.


If you have to go 13 deep to be 5.2 million more over the cap, you're not top heavy.
TOR is by far the more top heavy team. If it takes you 13 spots deep to get there that tells you that a team has depth.......or at least should considering how deep they are spending.
CSStrowbridge a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 15 h 01
#55
Rejoint: jui 2021
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Quoting: pharrow
It's a decent deal for VAN.
I think people on here are wanting to hand guys way to much money. Pettersson isn't even a PPG player. But people wanting to throw him insane money. He is close to a 30 goal guy though if not already one. But he has some injury issues. My guess is he goes in the 7s.
Hughes on the other hand. You take away the PP and his game really suffers. 64% starts in the Ozone and a 50% corsi. But people want to hand him 8-9 million. Are you kidding me. He shouldn't get that. My guess is 5-6 range is a fair value. He's a one trick pony. His corsi sucks, he's bleeding goals against in even strength play and 5v5 play. He's just not a very complete defenseman at this point. People are too obsessed with points and not looking at the whole player.


I agree. I don't think they get as much as some people here believe they will get. They both have the potential to be amazing players, but Pettersson has shown he is injury prone and that hurts his value, while Hughes is too young to take on as much burden as the Canucks need him to take on right now. (On a side note, I think this is partly why they brought on OEL, to lighten Hughes' load.)
15 aoû à 15 h 07
#56
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Vancouver is going to be significantly more top-heavy than Toronto next year (even with bridge deals).

What are they going to do when their bridge deals expire?


Toronto is over the cap right now, yet you think Vancouver is in trouble and Toronto isn't?
rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 15 h 12
#57
was lebronisdagoat
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Quoting: BCAPP
9 mil for Hughes is a huge overpayment


I agree but with what dmen are getting now I wouldn't be surprised
15 aoû à 16 h 12
#58
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
Toronto is over the cap right now, yet you think Vancouver is in trouble and Toronto isn't?


Toronto's done .... no one left to sign lol.

And they don't operate with a 23 player roster during the season ... so they are under the cap and good to go.
15 aoû à 16 h 15
#59
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Quoting: pharrow
If you have to go 13 deep to be 5.2 million more over the cap, you're not top heavy.
TOR is by far the more top heavy team. If it takes you 13 spots deep to get there that tells you that a team has depth.......or at least should considering how deep they are spending.


The problem with your theory is .... Toronto's 5th-13th players on the list are better than Vancouver's 5th-13th players.

And clearly Toronto's top 4 is better than Vancouver's top 4 ... and Toronto has 5 million extra to spend on the final 10.

Oh and BTW I was estimating Pettersson + Hughes + Boeser's contracts for next year ... and their on the low end.
15 aoû à 16 h 41
#60
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Quoting: lucal2228
I agree but with what dmen are getting now I wouldn't be surprised


Only Makar and Heiskanen got it off their ELC's. Jones was a pending Ufa and werenski and Nurse were third contracts.

Heiskanen and Makar are WAY better than Hughes. At this point Hughes is a game breaking offensive defenseman but a bad defensive one. Given his age and progression I'd be hopeful he improves there, but he isn't there yet.

If he wants to sign for term it should be high 7s and a bridge around high 5s
rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 16 h 42
#61
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Quoting: Tntpod
Overpayment. Not huge overpayment.


I suppose if we get semantic. I wouldnt feel comfortable giving him more than 7.5 ish even for term. His defensive game is quite flawed. I'd be hopeful he improves it but I wouldn't want to invest so much assuming he will
Tntpod a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 17 h 40
#62
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Quoting: drewjenkins
The problem with your theory is .... Toronto's 5th-13th players on the list are better than Vancouver's 5th-13th players.

And clearly Toronto's top 4 is better than Vancouver's top 4 ... and Toronto has 5 million extra to spend on the final 10.

Oh and BTW I was estimating Pettersson + Hughes + Boeser's contracts for next year ... and their on the low end.


none of that has anything to do with anything about being top heavy.
You just realize that your math is way off, your comment was off, and now it's excuse time.
TOR is top heavy. Period. VAN hardly. The 5th-13th being better is neither here nor their. Being top heavy isn't about the talent level on the ice. It's about salary cap structure.
So why bother getting into some pissing contest over who's players are better. The fact that you had to go 13 deep to get there basically says, he down to the 4th line and 3rd pairing VAN pays more! Like WTF cares. That has nothing to do with being top heavy. Top 6 Top 4 Goalie you got 11. So you got most the 3rd line. It's basically the 4th line up. That's depth spending.

Clearly TOR has a better player in Matthews. But you're pushing your luck in saying Marner is. One could also argue that the Matthews contract sucks due to the length. So lets not pretend TOR did some great job in their top. They didn't. They over paid a lot. Almost no one wants that Marner contract. JT to 35 isn't exactly great and something teams probably don't want to hold onto.
If they were that much better than VAN how come those VAN players won a playoff round in the last 2 years and TOR has not?
15 aoû à 17 h 42
#63
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Seems like a pretty good deal though. Gotta be honest can't remember watching much of him. But if he can truly provide shutdown defensive centre minutes that can be paid up to 4 mil if he could give you 30 points. If so under 3 as he can't. Makes sense.

The one thing about him is he can be a somewhat tough tool to use. Were in an era of best vs best not shutdown lines. So who will his wings be? And will people hate them when they end the year with like 25 es points too?

Also if you are accepting a guy like him on your 3c you should want an offensive 4th line
15 aoû à 18 h 55
#64
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Quoting: pharrow
none of that has anything to do with anything about being top heavy.
You just realize that your math is way off, your comment was off, and now it's excuse time.
TOR is top heavy. Period. VAN hardly. The 5th-13th being better is neither here nor their. Being top heavy isn't about the talent level on the ice. It's about salary cap structure.
So why bother getting into some pissing contest over who's players are better. The fact that you had to go 13 deep to get there basically says, he down to the 4th line and 3rd pairing VAN pays more! Like WTF cares. That has nothing to do with being top heavy. Top 6 Top 4 Goalie you got 11. So you got most the 3rd line. It's basically the 4th line up. That's depth spending.

Clearly TOR has a better player in Matthews. But you're pushing your luck in saying Marner is. One could also argue that the Matthews contract sucks due to the length. So lets not pretend TOR did some great job in their top. They didn't. They over paid a lot. Almost no one wants that Marner contract. JT to 35 isn't exactly great and something teams probably don't want to hold onto.
If they were that much better than VAN how come those VAN players won a playoff round in the last 2 years and TOR has not?


The break even is at 7-8 players for each team .... the top 7-8 contracts + buyouts next season are roughly equal between Toronto and Vancouver.

Toronto then begins to take the lead as you slide down the depth ....

Deal with it brotha.
15 aoû à 19 h 11
#65
depressed njd fan
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Quoting: EsoYeezus69
I heavily doubt Hughes will get 9 million.


agreed

he's worth 7.5 mil at best
EsoYeezus69 a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 19 h 28
#66
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Quoting: drewjenkins
The break even is at 7-8 players for each team .... the top 7-8 contracts + buyouts next season are roughly equal between Toronto and Vancouver.

Toronto then begins to take the lead as you slide down the depth ....

Deal with it brotha.


A. I hate to break it to you but TOR depth sucks.
It sucked last year, it sucks this year. So I have no idea what you are talking about "take the lead"
second, You can keep trying to get around the fact that TOR is vastly more top heavy all day with "deal with it brotha" comments. But TOR is far more top heavy. Which was the WHOLE POINT.
Why are you even still arguing it? Can you not just admit that paying 3 players an average of about 11 mil per, is clearly heavier and most likely going to be significantly heavier?
Are you that jealous of VAN that you can't admit that. I'm not even a VAN fan and I can clearly see this is true.
TOR fans are just obsessed. It's like you are all blind to reality. You are paying a lot of money at the top. A lot. More than probably any team in the league in their top 4 players. But here you are...."other teams are top heavy"
Even EDM paying McDavid and Drai is less top heavy. That's the biggest contract in the league. Maybe TB is close. I mean it's hard to find a team in the league as top heavy as TOR.
CSStrowbridge a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 20 h 49
#67
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Quoting: drewjenkins
The break even is at 7-8 players for each team .... the top 7-8 contracts + buyouts next season are roughly equal between Toronto and Vancouver.

Toronto then begins to take the lead as you slide down the depth ....

Deal with it brotha.


So when you take TO's top 9 paid forwards and Top 4 paid D-Men they have spent 68.52 Mill on those 13 Players.
If you take Vancouvers Top 8 Forwards and Top 3 D they have spent 46.08 Mill on those 11 Players, giving Van almost 22.5 Mil to spend on Hughes/Petterson to round out the same player totals.

Most estimates are Hughes for 6ish years at 7.5-8 Mill and Pety on 3 years for around 7.5-8 Mill on the high side that is 16 Mil for both players putting Van at about 6.5 Mil less on their top 4 D and Top 9 Forwards. I don't know were your math comes from but TO is heavy even when its top 13. Now we get down to those last 3 forwards and 2 D, TO spent 5.5 Mil and Van spend 5.9 Mil so your spent .4 mil less but lets not forget the extra 6.5 mil Vancouver has. so now on our entire roster we have spent 6.1 Mil less and I would say have a more complete lineup on forwards and comparable D (Better D if OEL works out for us).

Last Spot is Goalies, Van has spent about a mil more for I would say an arguably better Duo in net.


So in total TO has spent 79.5 mill on 12 F 6 D and 2 G. and then have 1.2 mill tied up in Kessel. Leaving only enough space to have either 1 spare forward or D left as a scratch.
Vancouver has spent 75.5 on 12 F 7D and 2G (based on 16 mill in contracts for Pety and Hughes). They have 3.6 mill in dead cap and then 3.5 Mil in LTIR Leaving enough space to have 2 F and 1 D scratch and not even touch the LTIR from Ferland and still have $500k to spare.

So you are running 1 spare player and no scratches really and are right up on your cap. Van technically could add another 4 mil of contracts during the season and be fine(more come trade deadline). Van have the better lineup with the flexibility to swap out their young players to help develop them.
CSStrowbridge a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 21 h 05
#68
JARVIS SZN
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Good signing for a solid young 3C. The term also helps.
CSStrowbridge a aimé ceci.
15 aoû à 23 h 35
#69
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Toronto's done .... no one left to sign lol.


They are over the cap. They can't sign anyone... Because they are over the cap.

Quoting: drewjenkins
And they don't operate with a 23 player roster during the season ... so they are under the cap and good to go.


Uhhh... What? Seriously, what are you talking about? You don't think they will have a 23-man roster on opening night?
16 aoû à 14 h 37
#70
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
They are over the cap. They can't sign anyone... Because they are over the cap.

Uhhh... What? Seriously, what are you talking about? You don't think they will have a 23-man roster on opening night?


Team's only dress 20 players for hockey games man.

Every team has to have a compliant 23 man roster for a moment in time before the season starts.

The Leafs can already do that by re-arranging their current players on paper.

They did the same thing last year when the season started.

Example:

Sending down Kase on paper (or anyone above $1,150,000) saves $1,150,000 in cap-space.

Then you replace them with someone making $750,000 and you save $400,000.

Do this with 3 players and the Leafs are under the cap for compliance.

The play a 21 man roster and sub for injuries when necessary.

Pretty standard stuff for cap-ceiling teams.
16 aoû à 14 h 40
#71
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
They are over the cap. They can't sign anyone... Because they are over the cap.

Uhhh... What? Seriously, what are you talking about? You don't think they will have a 23-man roster on opening night?


If you don't know the rules that's fine ... they're weird ... just don't start fights about it.
16 aoû à 14 h 43
#72
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Quoting: Kith
So when you take TO's top 9 paid forwards and Top 4 paid D-Men they have spent 68.52 Mill on those 13 Players.
If you take Vancouvers Top 8 Forwards and Top 3 D they have spent 46.08 Mill on those 11 Players, giving Van almost 22.5 Mil to spend on Hughes/Petterson to round out the same player totals.


You gotta stop there.

Its top 8 contracts ... not top 4 forwards + 3 defense ... and you have to add in Vancouver's buyout cap-space lost.

That gives you the amount remaining to fill out the rest of the roster.
16 aoû à 14 h 44
#73
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Quoting: pharrow
A. I hate to break it to you but TOR depth sucks.
It sucked last year, it sucks this year. So I have no idea what you are talking about "take the lead"
second, You can keep trying to get around the fact that TOR is vastly more top heavy all day with "deal with it brotha" comments. But TOR is far more top heavy. Which was the WHOLE POINT.
Why are you even still arguing it? Can you not just admit that paying 3 players an average of about 11 mil per, is clearly heavier and most likely going to be significantly heavier?
Are you that jealous of VAN that you can't admit that. I'm not even a VAN fan and I can clearly see this is true.
TOR fans are just obsessed. It's like you are all blind to reality. You are paying a lot of money at the top. A lot. More than probably any team in the league in their top 4 players. But here you are...."other teams are top heavy"
Even EDM paying McDavid and Drai is less top heavy. That's the biggest contract in the league. Maybe TB is close. I mean it's hard to find a team in the league as top heavy as TOR.


Deal with it brotha.
16 aoû à 15 h 02
#74
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Quoting: drewjenkins
If you don't know the rules that's fine ... they're weird ... just don't start fights about it.


Have you never heard of healthy scratches? If a player is a healthy scratch, they still get paid at the NHL level and their salary is part of the salary cap. Teams need 23 players for their roster, otherwise they have to call people up every time there's an injury and they expose them to the waivers when going back down.
16 aoû à 15 h 54
#75
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
Have you never heard of healthy scratches? If a player is a healthy scratch, they still get paid at the NHL level and their salary is part of the salary cap. Teams need 23 players for their roster, otherwise they have to call people up every time there's an injury and they expose them to the waivers when going back down.


1. You don't need to have 3 healthy scratches on your roster (it's a maximum not a requirement).

2. Toronto usually calls up non-waiver eligible guys or older guys that won't get claimed (it burned them twice last year with Boyd + Vesey).

3. The Marlies are already in Toronto so 'calling them up' is just a paper transaction that Toronto completes as needed.

4. Dubas has been doing this for the past 2 seasons (Toronto has more internal transactions than any other team).

5. Toronto would have been over the cap with a 23 man roster last year, but still saved up $3,000,000 for the trade deadline.

It is what it is man.
 
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