Okay, I love this debate, so let's go.

Krill Kaprizov is already 25, he had a fantastic rookie season, sure... in a weak division. You are trying to take on the equivalent of Seth Jarvis (ranked by most professional scouts as a broderline top 10 forward prospect in his own right) along with a 1st and other assets for 3 years of someone who is then going to test the free agent market?

Kaprizov here is a moot point because it's an incredibly stupid idea. Passing that, IT'S NOT WORTH IT! If he does it again this year, when he actually has to play teams like Tampa, Boston, Carolina, Islanders... hell even teams like St Louis and Florida, or the Rangers, or Toronto.... that's different. A lot of people had good years when they can play Arizona, Anaheim, San Jose, and Los Angeles 8 times each... buzz right off. Call me an idiot, you're going to look at points and try to justify it.

And before any of you come at me with "hE'S wHy MiNnEsOtA WeRe GoOd ThIs YeAr"



So please think before you talk to me. And for calling me an idiot, I hope you enjoy your infraction, buddy!

Your reactions to these hypothetical value proposals are always complete astonishment, and I don’t understand why. It’s just a thought experiment and provokes good discussion around prices and returns in the overall trade market.

I’m not suggesting any of this would ever happen, but I still think it can be fun to have the conversation. You’d think it’s like taboo with some of your replies.

I’m genuinely curious, what do you think a fair return for Kaprizov would be in the hypothetical world where he is traded with 50% retained? Because that’s all I was trying to solicit from people with this post.

I apologize for calling you an idiot. That was uncalled for. I just didn’t appreciate your knee jerk reaction comment when you very clearly didn’t spend the time to understand the post. Nonetheless, name calling wasnt needed.

Yeah that’s fair, but I’d argue Kaprizov is much more of a game breaker than Hornqvist is.

Sorry, you have to understand this is a website of idiots, and most of the time, they want pieces like suzuki and Jarvis for taking on contracts like Gardiner. It was also like really early and I hadn't had my coffee

And what were Vegas and Colorado? Chump change? If you're certain it was such a weak division, that fair. But you're imminently glossing over the fact that TWO out of the top 3 teams in the league played in that division last year. Kaprizov played well, and performed, against them too. He makes anyone he plays against look like idiots. That was true no matter which team it was, including the VGK and Aves. The division he played in last year is immaterial and inconsequential.

But please, do go on...

Sure but not better than Lundell and Horny. Lundell is a top prospect and it makes no sense financially for the Cats.

Yes, two of the top 3 teams yeah? The one that couldn't beat the other, and that one lost to the WORST TEAM In THE PLAYOFFS!

Wait is your stance that Colorado and Vegas were not good teams this past year?

No, no, no. I'm saying the division as a whole was weak, and that there are stronger teams in the league than those two (mainly Tampa Bay before they lost their 3rd line)

Yeah the overall division was weak, but if you’re using that as a basis for saying Kaprizovs numbers were inflated or he’s overrated, it sounds like you didn’t actually watch many games and are just using stats as a measuring stick. I don’t know how anyone that actually watched his games could call him overrated.

So were the Blues when they won the cup three seasons ago.

Your point?

Every playoffs has at least one Cinderella story in it every year, that is nothing new. They just got their asses handed to them by the unequivocally unanimous best team in the league for the last two years in the cup finals. That is all. It's the playoffs, once you're in... anything can happen. That's kinda the point, and the reason why it's so hard to repeat as cup champions in the modern cap era.

That doesn't change or decry the fact that Colorado and Vegas are unanimously considered the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the league right now. Teams that Kaprizov, again, played very well against. Your counter argument doesn't change that fact, or really have any bearing on that. It just sounds desperate.

Lmao
1. He played st louis this year, 8 times.
2. Colorado
3. Vegas
You make it soumd like he didnt play any good teams.

Dustin Brown is not a cap dump. He led the Kings in goals last season and still plays top line minutes. He's a locker room and fan favorite and won't be traded.

I suggest you seriously look at his metrics. They strongly suggest that his production isn't sustainable. He might be fun to watch, but that doesn't make him good. Warren Foegele had a thousand breakaways this year, and was SO exciting, he was still garbage because he couldn't do anything with them. I'm not comparing Foegele and Kaprizov, but I strongly suggest you do not take 1 good rookie season to mean that he is a star

St Louis were very mediocre.


So he played 16 games against genuine cup contenders... what suggests that this is sustainable? I tell you this because last season, he doesn't put those numbers up in the East. If he was in the central with Tampa Bay, Carolina, Florida, he likely doesn't put those numbers up. He strongly was aided from a weakdivision LMAO. That's not debatable. All that can be debated is the effect that had on how good he looked

I wouldn't consider Vegas AND Colorado both top 3 teams last season. I wouldn't suggest they were both better than Carolina, I wouldn't suggest they were both better than Tampa. Top 5, different convo. As for the playoff run... yes, every year there is a cinderella story. That doesn't mean that there SHOULDN'T be. If you're the favorite, you're the favorite for a reason. If you play to your best as the favorite, 9/10, there's nothing the opponent can do to beat you. Your downfall is of your own making. Lets not forget that if Toronto were not allergic to series wins, Montreal get knocked out in 5 and we're looking at #FireBergevin trending again. But that is besides the point.

Kaprizov had an advantage in a weaker division, that is just a fact. You can debate how strongly this factors in on how good he is, but I, for one, would prefer to see him do it over a larger sample size playing every team before I declare him the next Russian superstar

Welcome to the NHL, Kirill Kaprizov!First game, first goal. Not to mention it's a GWG in OT, great stuff. #NHLFaceOff pic.twitter.com/OGc6eYZNTA

— NHL (@NHL) January 15, 2021

Yeah, they wouldn't trade him for Kaprizov at all. Don't be stupid, they make that trade in a heartbeat.

What metrics? He actually scores quite well in advanced stats, and played the entire year with Rask as a 1C. At this point, I can tell you’re just doubling down and grasping at straws, given that you just threw a desperation hail mary on analytics. I can appreciate if you don’t think he’s worth the proposed trade value, that’s your prerogative, but just say that’s your stance then. Don’t try and make things up.

On what analytics do you think he scores well? His xWAR is basically neutral, despite being an offensive powerhouse (NST) and his RAPM metrics (EH) are great offensively, but leave much to be desired in his own end. I cannot tell if you're not as up-to-date on analytics as perhaps others are, but this has been clear for a while. I don't know what you thought you were suggesting, but his analytics aren't anything special, and they basically suggest he'll come down from his current production. He'll be a 50-70 point guy, it's difficult to tell you exactly where off of like 50 games because that sample size is way too low (I personally hate tryint to evaluate players off of anything less than 3 years anyway, but a shortened season like this makes it far harder) but he's not a PPG player, not without some help.

DB is also a 36 year old grinder. I can appreciate the loyalty angle, but I’d have a hard time believing any competent GM would consider him untouchable for someone of Kaprizovs caliber.

I show his xSPAR as 4th behind Matthews, McDavid and Rantanen, which could be argued as a more useful and telling stat than WAR. I’m not an analytics guru and won’t claim to be, but from the articles and research I’ve done, it seems to be the overwhelmingly consensus that he’s very solid.

To be perfectly honest though, if you have watched Kaprizovs entire (or even a majority of) season and are legitimately coming to the conclusion that he’s a 50 pt guy, I think that’s a good place to end the conversation. At some point these discussions become fruitless, and arguing with someone over whether or not Kap is a 50 point guy is the line for me.

No one considers Carolina to be better than either Colorado or Vegas. The Hurricanes are routinely placed at or around 5th or 6th in most power rankings.

Kings: 6G 3A for 9 points in 8 games

Blues: 2G 1A for 3 points in 7 games

Aves: 3G 4A for 7 points in 8 games

Yotes: 5G 5A for 10 points in 8 games

Sharks: 4G 2A for 6 points in 8 games

Ducks: 1G 7A for 8 points in 8 games

VGK: 6G 2A for 8 points in 8 games.

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/kirill-kaprizov-stats-against-each-team-2021

While his shot to shooting percentage was high, it's varied enough and consistent enough to suggest it's not out of character for him. His KHL stats are similar, which is why to suggest that his metric data would drop in successive seasons and isn't sustainable is ludicrous. His metrics from both leagues show they are.

You were the one that brought up St Louis not me. You can have your opinion and that's fine but when he had over a point per game against two teams that you called cup contenders its pretty thick of you to say he benefited from a weak division.

I didn't say the Kings wouldn't trade for him. I'm just saying they wouldn't trade Brown for him. Since he's clearly being treated as negative value in the trade, just take him out.