that coleman contract jesus....

i love Coleman but wow 4.5 gets him

Jones isn't a good fit for the isles - they already have pulock and dobson on the right side.

Philly says sure... Patrick is a bust...so it's like Laine for a 1st....

Korpi left unprotected?

Dobson isn't very good, so there's that

Guy's a literal monster. One of the best defensive forwards in the league with an almost equally big offensive impact. What's crazier is he's still getting better. People are talking about giving Landeskog 8+, and he's basically Coleman with less offensive ability, so I think it's more narrative than anything else.

I guess the issue for you would be that Laine is also a bust

Yeah he's pretty bad. But maybe you're right, someone would probably pay for him regardless

Dobson was actually very good last season, led all isles D in XGF% . This season he wasn't the same after he had COVID. The kid is 21 YO, he has the high end IQ and tools to be a top pair D.

If that's the case, the Jets will get him for a first

He was really solid defensively in a 30-something game sample. There's also no guarantee he comes back well from covid. The problem with that comparison is also that all Islanders defensemen are pretty poor offensively.

But sure, the trade works with other teams, as suggested in the description.

I thought we went through this already... I don't think he wants that

so you're going to use another similar sample size to say he's not good. Dobson has been much better as of late, I think he'll be alright! Btw Devon Toews and Ryan Pulock were good offensively last season.

Defintely trade Korpi before the expansion draft. I think the Coleman contract is a bit much but thats ok, he is going to have multiple bidders. I wouldnt go 5.5 unless no important contracts coming up for the duration of that deal. I think Stasny is going to stay in Winnipeg or retire. He isn't what he used to be and seems happy. Might go the Spezza route.
I think if Vancouver could have gotten rid of Erikson for a 2nd and a good player they would have. They take that ALLL day. Erikkson has tanked since signing there and will cost at least a 1st to get rid of the final year of that deal.
Jones isn't going to the Isles. Not unless a stud Dman like Pelech comes back (with a contract) although I hope he chooses to go to Toronto! I hope TO gets Oleksiak or Pelech.

This team is nowhere close to being better than the current CBJ roster.

Also this narrative that CBJ needs to rebuild is completely overblown. If they add a solid fit at 1C to play with Laine plus the new coach they’ll be in the playoffs next season. People underestimate the quality of their winger group. I dislike Laine as much as anyone as a player but him, Atkinson, Bjorkstrand, and Nyquist are quality top 6 wingers. Werenski is an elite Dman. They have a better roster than people give credit for.

That's a great trade for Philly.

Toews is correct. With Pulock it's alot of opportunity. He does less than expected given the circumstances he plays under. I don't think gathering points is the same as having a positive impact

"We don't have a lot of reasont to think Dobson is really good" is a better phrasing of my point I guess

Korpisalo is a funny case study to me, cause you'd think after Bobrovski people understand that Torts and the CBJ system help goalies *A LOT*, but I guess not? Korpisalo is way below any level of average goaltending. Merzlikins helps us understand this, cause he's decent-to-good, and is just way better in the CBJ net. All Korpisalo has ever done is being trusted minutes behind a defensively strong team.

Why is the Coleman contract too high? When a guy like Landeskog is looking at 7-8m over 6-8 years I can't for my life understand what Coleman has done worse than been given the same amount of opportunity and linemates.

I'm considering Erikson a cap dump, although frankly he's still an alright player. The big difference is that his top minutes have tanked. What's more important here is getting rid of Atkinson before that contract turns bad. You're taking on a year of Eriksson now, to avoid keeping Cam around to turn into a similar situation with more term. Getting a pick for it is a nice bonus. This is also done cause Columbus has solid forward width and doesn't really need to play either.

Stastny used to be a top player in this league, so that phrasing isn't necessarily helpful. He's still much better than guys like PLD or Domi that CBJ has been draggin around lately.

I don't know why Jones would net you Pelech, cause Pelech is just way better. So is Oleksiak. So is a lot of players. Jones isolated numbers are atrocious. He's just absorbing minutes and in some capacity points in Columbus. And sadly, the way we evaluate defensemen is if they score less than expected we assume they're defensively good. He's not only not good, he's defensively really bad.

You're literally only judging players by their production. Which is almost circular, since producing players will be given time. Laine has a good shot. The issue is he his teammates gets to shoot far less when he's on the ice. He's actually dragging offense down lower than expected. He's also coming off his defensively worst season yet, which says a lot, cause he's never been okay defensively.

I don't think CBJ is a garbage team. I think Bjorkstrand and Robinson are fantastic players. Gavrikov is good. Bemström, Atkinson, Merzlikins are good players. Werenski is good too, but nothing close to elite, he's just given a lot more offensive opportunity than Gavrikov. Jones is given a lot of opportunity as well, and he's just getting mauled by top competition.

I assume you believe that Coleman, Stastny and Danault are just average players cause, again, their point totals aren't where you expect them to be? That's my entire argument - play them as first liners and they'll produce as such. They're also really solid defensively, which would further play to CBJ's team identity, strength, etc. I think those 3 are fantastic players and CBJ has the type of filled out roster to really compete with only a few impactful additions.

I mean I think they'll be disappointed when another player they assumed to be a 1st liner mostly cause people said so, or because of the inherent production that comes with playing a lot, does in fact not elevate them to anything but possibly becoming the new purgatory staple team after the Wild got better - since Laine isn't actually helping his team win

Blah blah

from 18-20 Pulock was 11th in offensive impact among all defenseman. 23rd in RAPM GF/60. I don't think it's fair to say he's poor offensively.

There's a lot of reasons to believe he'll be really good in the future. He had a 1.3 xWAR and was a solid play driver at both ends of the ice as a 19 YO playing on his offside with one of the worst defenseman in the league (boychuk) . From Jan 21-March 21 his xgf/60, xgf% , and gf/60 steadily increased until he got covid and it went down hill after that, which also had to do with Barry Trotz and his usage of him after he came back from Covid.

Imagine making assumptions because I said good players were good so other good players must be bad. I haven’t judged a single player based on point total. I know Laine is as bad as it gets without the puck which is why I dislike him as a player. But he still has an elite shot. The other players I mentioned were off an eye test as I didn’t look up their analytics yet.

Danualt is one of the most underrated players because of his point total. He does need to pick that up but he’s still very good. But those players make zero sense if you’re trading the good players that are already on the roster.

Also Werenski was elite this season.

Overall my point was this team isn’t in a rebuild. They’re already pretty young. Whatever they get in the Jones trade needs to be turned into a C to play with Laine. Whether that’s a straight trade of Jones for the C or using the assets in return to trade for one.

Who's metrics are you using? I'm looking at an above average defender that is as much below average offensively. I'm not at the pc rn, maybe it's his actual shot that makes a difference then? But my isolated impacts are telling me he's producing less than expected offensively