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Hertl is NOT Elite

Créé par: GMs
Équipe: 2020-21 Sharks de San Jose
Date de création initiale: 20 nov. 2020
Publié: 20 nov. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Hertl is in is prime, 27 yo 2 years remaining before he gets the big payday and that contract won’t probably age well. Hertl have 1 season over 50 points and he is now 27 yo, is he a 1C ? Yes, but he isn’t Elite. Domi did 72 points with MTL and no one ever considered him a 1C and not even close. I know Hertl is better than Domi, but if Domi is a 2C than Hertl is a 1C but not Elite

Thanks !
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20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 41
#26
Isles777
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Quoting: mhockey91
You can 100% notice a good player on the ice. Clearly you don’t have much hockey sense if you can’t differentiate between a good player and a bad player... production + eye test + sports writes + analytics is the only way to go.

There is a reason no team solely rellies on advanced stats. Not even TML with Dubas. There are so many other intangibles


Not true. Most casual fans have no idea how to evaluate a player. When you say “eye test” it’s is pretty much another way of saying “points”
20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 44
#27
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Quoting: mhockey91
You can 100% notice a good player on the ice. Clearly you don’t have much hockey sense if you can’t differentiate between a good player and a bad player... production + eye test + sports writes + analytics is the only way to go.

There is a reason no team solely rellies on advanced stats. Not even TML with Dubas. There are so many other intangibles


No team solely relies on analytics , but on certain team it plays a big role in signing/acquiring players.
20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 46
#28
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Quoting: Isles777
It seems like you’re evaluating players based on your personal bias. Skill does not always equal impact. Some of those players have more skill than hertl, but hertl definitely has the better impact



He has been a career 50 point guy, Except for one great season. Hertl isn’t better than any of those guys. He’s closer to Max Domi than he is to the players you listed
20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 47
#29
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Quoting: Isles777
No team solely relies on analytics , but on certain team it plays a big role in signing/acquiring players.


So if no team solely relies on it, why does the analytics community base their opinions strictly off analytics? Sorry but I think the experts know more than us
20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 50
#30
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Quoting: mhockey91
So if no team solely relies on it, why does the analytics community base their opinions strictly off analytics? Sorry but I think the experts know more than us


The analytics community always says that the eye test is important , but analytics do a great job at capturing a players impact.

Who are the experts?
20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 53
#31
Isles777
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Quoting: mhockey91
He has been a career 50 point guy, Except for one great season. Hertl isn’t better than any of those guys. He’s closer to Max Domi than he is to the players you listed


The past two seasons hertl has been elite. 120 game sample size
20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 53
#32
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Quoting: Isles777
The analytics community always says that the eye test is important , but analytics do a great job at capturing a players impact.

Who are the experts?


Ummm no they don’t lol. Not guys like the evolving wild twins or just causal analytic users like DEYS3223 who has never watched a game of hockey in his life
20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 54
#33
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Quoting: Isles777
The past two seasons hertl has been elite. 120 game sample size


There’s an argument for last year, but not this year.
20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 55
#34
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Quoting: mhockey91
There’s an argument for last year, but not this year.


He was better this season
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20 nov. 2020 à 20 h 59
#35
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Quoting: Isles777
He was better this season


Based on the analytics sure. But he was only on pace for 61 points and 27 goals. If he was so elite this season, then maybe SJS wouldn’t have been one of the worst teams in the league. That sure isn’t elite numbers. Perfect example of why analytics are misleading
20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 2
#36
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Quoting: Isles777
Nah 😂 - he’s a good follow if you’re into analytics


I do follow him lol, I was wondering if he was you, although he seems like he may be a rags fan but idk for sure
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20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 3
#37
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Quoting: mhockey91
Based on the analytics sure. But he was only on pace for 61 points and 27 goals. If he was so elite this season, then maybe SJS wouldn’t have been one of the worst teams in the league. That sure isn’t elite numbers. Perfect example of why analytics are misleading


You can’t say that you use analytics and then disregard them completely to prove a point.

.”watch the games” to you basically means points. I guess Kyle Connor is better than mark stone because he had more points , right?
20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 4
#38
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
I do follow him lol, I was wondering if he was you, although he seems like he may be a rags fan but idk for sure


Lmao I think he’s a pens fan
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20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 7
#39
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Lmao I think he’s a pens fan


I think I’m general he’s just a Jack Johnson fan 😂
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20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 10
#40
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
I do follow him lol, I was wondering if he was you, although he seems like he may be a rags fan but idk for sure


Quoting: Isles777
Lmao I think he’s a pens fan


Yes he's a Pens fan
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20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 11
#41
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Quoting: Isles777
You can’t say that you use analytics and then disregard them completely to prove a point.

.”watch the games” to you basically means points. I guess Kyle Connor is better than mark stone because he had more points , right?


I probably weigh points heavier tbh I use both, especially with forwards. D I like to use analytics more.

And lol that’s an awful example because everyone knows mark stone is elite defensively and Connor is below average.

“Watch the games” to me means watch with my own eyes buddy. Hertl doesn’t stand out when you watch him play. He doesn’t take over the ice
20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 14
#42
KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
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Quoting: mhockey91
Based on the analytics sure. But he was only on pace for 61 points and 27 goals. If he was so elite this season, then maybe SJS wouldn’t have been one of the worst teams in the league. That sure isn’t elite numbers. Perfect example of why analytics are misleading


Right.

He's a fringe 1C/bonified 2C but not elite. Stop.

Franchise level Cs:
Sid, McDavid and MacKinnon

Elite:
Eichel, Matthews, Aho, Zibanejad, Bergeron, Kopitar...
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20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 16
#43
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Quoting: mhockey91
I probably weigh points heavier tbh I use both, especially with forwards. D I like to use analytics more.

And lol that’s an awful example because everyone knows mark stone is elite defensively and Connor is below average.

“Watch the games” to me means watch with my own eyes buddy. Hertl doesn’t stand out when you watch him play. He doesn’t take over the ice


It's so frustrating and honestly useless to argue with analytics cult members. They ruined hockey. If we now need to base our opinion on them before watching hockey, then watching the game is useless.
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20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 16
#44
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
Right.

He's a fringe 1C/bonified 2C but not elite. Stop.

Franchise level Cs:
Sid, McDavid and MacKinnon

Elite:
Eichel, Matthews, Aho, Zibanejad, Bergeron, Kopitar...


Exactly! He’s not close to any of the elite players you named.
20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 18
#45
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
It's so frustrating and honestly useless to argue with analytics cult members. They ruined hockey. If we now need to base our opinion on them before watching hockey, then watching the game is useless.


It honestly is a cult tbh. Great way to put it. Like analytics are a useful tool, but the analytic culture of “only reading the spreadsheets” is harmful to the game. I agree. Luckily, no actually people working for NHL organizations think this way
20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 18
#46
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Quoting: mhockey91
Exactly! He’s not close to any of the elite players you named.


Although I should add that some elite players are ahead of other elite players, for instance here Matthews and Eichel are ahead of the others.
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20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 21
#47
KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
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Quoting: mhockey91
It honestly is a cult tbh. Great way to put it. Like analytics are a useful tool, but the analytic culture of “only reading the spreadsheets” is harmful to the game. I agree. Luckily, no actually people working for NHL organizations think this way


sEtH jOnEs (who can literally play 26-27 minutes a game in all situations and look elite in all of them) Is A sEcOnD pAiRiNg D-mAn
SpUrGeOn AnD eLlIs(who aren't even the main defensive weapons on their team) ArE tOp 15 D-mEn
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20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 22
#48
Isles777
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Quoting: mhockey91
I probably weigh points heavier tbh I use both, especially with forwards. D I like to use analytics more.

And lol that’s an awful example because everyone knows mark stone is elite defensively and Connor is below average.

“Watch the games” to me means watch with my own eyes buddy. Hertl doesn’t stand out when you watch him play. He doesn’t take over the ice


Unless you can put your eye test into evidence, its just your opinion. Analytics are evidence based analysis.

All you've done is argue what you like to see in a player, but it still stands that Hertl had a stronger overall impact than all the players I listed.
20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 24
#49
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Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
sEtH jOnEs (who can literally play 26-27 minutes a game in all situations and look elite in all of them) Is A sEcOnD pAiRiNg D-mAn
SpUrGeOn AnD eLlIs(who aren't even the main defensive weapons on their team) ArE tOp 15 D-mEn


100% man! I couldn't agree more. Ellis and Spurgeon two of the most overrated Ds
20 nov. 2020 à 21 h 25
#50
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Quoting: Isles777
Unless you can put your eye test into evidence, its just your opinion. Analytics are evidence based analysis.

All you've done is argue what you like to see in a player, but it still stands that Hertl had a stronger overall impact than all the players I listed.


it absolutely doesn't stand that hertl had a bigger impact than those players. just your skewed numbers may say it. anyone with a brain knows its not true
 
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