Forums/Armchair-GM

Hertl is NOT Elite

Créé par: GMs
Date de création initiale: nov 20, 2020
Publié: 20 nov 2020 à 19 h 04
Équipe: 2020-21 Sharks de San Jose
Explications
Hertl is in is prime, 27 yo 2 years remaining before he gets the big payday and that contract won’t probably age well. Hertl have 1 season over 50 points and he is now 27 yo, is he a 1C ? Yes, but he isn’t Elite. Domi did 72 points with MTL and no one ever considered him a 1C and not even close. I know Hertl is better than Domi, but if Domi is a 2C than Hertl is a 1C but not Elite

Thanks !
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
UFAANSCAP HIT
Folin, Christian1700 000 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Nick Foligno: 1 375 000 $ (25%)
  • Mattias Janmark: 562 500 $ (25%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2021
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
2022
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
MIN
2023
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
SJS
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $81 265 000 $0 $622 500 $235 000 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
SJS
Kane, Evander
7 000 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 5
SJS
Hertl, Tomas
5 625 000 $
C, AD
NTC
UFA - 2
SJS
Meier, Timo
6 000 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 3
SJS
Donato, Ryan
1 900 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
SJS
Couture, Logan
8 000 000 $
C, AG
NTC
UFA - 7
SJS
Labanc, Kevin
4 725 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
SJS
Sörensen, Marcus
1 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
SJS
Gregor, Noah
768 333 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
SJS
Noesen, Stefan
925 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
SJS
Marleau, Patrick
700 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
SJS
Händemark, Fredrik
792 500 $
C
UFA - 1
SJS
Nieto, Matt
700 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
SJS
Vlasic, Marc-Édouard
7 000 000 $
DG/DD
NMC
UFA - 6
SJS
Karlsson, Erik
11 500 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 7
SJS
Jones, Martin
5 750 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 4
SJS
Simek, Radim
2 250 000 $
DG
UFA - 4
SJS
Burns, Brent
8 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 5
SJS
Dubnyk, Devan
2 166 667 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
SJS
Ferraro, Mario
925 000 $
DG
RFA - 2
SJS
Middleton, Jacob
725 000 $
DG
RFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
SJS
Leonard, John
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
SJS
Kellman, Joel
750 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Folin, Christian
700 000 $
DD
UFA

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20 nov 2020 à 22 h 23
#76
best poster
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 5,196
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hertls a 1c but not elite. i believe your overall scoring production needs to be much higher to be considered elite.

Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
sEtH jOnEs (who can literally play 26-27 minutes a game in all situations and look elite in all of them) Is A sEcOnD pAiRiNg D-mAn


split him from werenski and he wont be considered elite anymore.
20 nov 2020 à 22 h 40
#77
Thank You GMJR
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 15,556
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Quoting: papishark
Hertl has dealt with injuries. That is the only thing holding him back. If he stays healthy a whole year you will see numbers like his best year. The points do not tell the full story on this one


Not with the current SJS roster. I doubt he ever gets 70+ points again unless he gets traded. And even if he does get 70+ points that’s not an “elite centre”
20 nov 2020 à 23 h 50
#78
Rejoint: aoû 2019
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Quoting: mhockey91
Not with the current SJS roster. I doubt he ever gets 70+ points again unless he gets traded. And even if he does get 70+ points that’s not an “elite centre”


Not everyone has two franchise picks for their centers. I and many others would call him elite
21 nov 2020 à 0 h 14
#79
Thank You GMJR
Rejoint: jun 2015
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Quoting: papishark
Not everyone has two franchise picks for their centers. I and many others would call him elite


Then I guess other players who have hit 70+ points are elite like Duchene and Couture. You’re using the world “elite” too lightly. He’s a fringe 1C

Also I wouldn’t complain about lacking a franchise centre. Thornton is a first ballot HOFER.
21 nov 2020 à 0 h 18
#80
Rejoint: aoû 2019
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Quoting: mhockey91
Then I guess other players who have hit 70+ points are elite like Duchene and Couture. You’re using the world “elite” too lightly. He’s a fringe 1C

Also I wouldn’t complain about lacking a franchise centre. Thornton is a first ballot HOFER.


If you cant tell the difference between those players and Hertl you arent watching enough. Those guys are not supreme play drivers like Hertl
Isles777 a aimé ceci.
21 nov 2020 à 15 h 25
#81
y i k e s
Rejoint: sep 2019
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Modifié 21 nov 2020 à 15 h 37
@bhavikp27 @GMs @mhockey91 @Isles777 @mondo @KakkoForMauriceRichardAward @moli92 @RawZuccSauce420 @Ledge_And_Dairy @papishark idk I felt this was easier than getting all the replies, sorry in advance if it’s a bit much of an @

Whether we all disagree a lot I think it’s a good discussion to see on Hertl. I think going to analytical is too much and going all eye test is also to much.

Imo I think a lot of good points were made on both ends. In my belief Hertl is elite, but that’s based off how we view other players. Some of us brought up the “ranks” of players. Hertl is elite, Jones is elite. Eichel, Matthews aren’t elite their “superstars/ near franchise players”. Crosby, McDavid are franchise players. A lot of this depends on how we each view other players and that causes a lot of disparity I think. I view Barzal as a elite for example but would I rather have Hertl or Barzal - easily Barzal at this point. They’re both elite but not the same at all. Hertl’s eye test is huge for me and I view him every year for over 50-60 regular season games (its hard to be a sharks fan on the east coast and catch all regular season games but I ensure to see all playoffs). He’s been my top rated sharks player for a while - I thought he was our best player even when Pavs was here in 2018-19. 19-20 I believed the same thing. In the playoffs even, in 18-19 I believed Hertl made a huge difference. Analytically Hertl gains a stronger case, but once again as many have you have said - his point totals aren’t eye popping and to be elite he needs to drive point totals higher but also he’s not all points. And he’s also dealt with career detailing injuries that probably have stifled his full potential and hurt his career (unfortunately Dustin Brown is a person, lol jk I’ve kinda forgiven/ gave up that ill will).

I think it’s fair to say Hertl is just a good 1C, but I also believe it’s fair to say he’s elite - it’s a lot of subjectivity but in my rankings I would say Hertl is elite, but not near the top of the food chain by any means.
Isles777, mhockey91, bhavikp27 and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
21 nov 2020 à 15 h 48
#82
Thank You GMJR
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 15,556
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Quoting: yikes
@bhavikp27 @GMs @mhockey91 @Isles777 @mondo @KakkoForMauriceRichardAward @moli92 @RawZuccSauce420 @Ledge_And_Dairy @papishark idk I felt this was easier than getting all the replies, sorry in advance if it’s a bit much of an @

Whether we all disagree a lot I think it’s a good discussion to see on Hertl. I think going to analytical is too much and going all eye test is also to much.

Imo I think a lot of good points were made on both ends. In my belief Hertl is elite, but that’s based off how we view other players. Some of us brought up the “ranks” of players. Hertl is elite, Jones is elite. Eichel, Matthews aren’t elite their “superstars/ near franchise players”. Crosby, McDavid are franchise players. A lot of this depends on how we each view other players and that causes a lot of disparity I think. I view Barzal as a elite for example but would I rather have Hertl or Barzal - easily Barzal at this point. They’re both elite but not the same at all. Hertl’s eye test is huge for me and I view him every year for over 50-60 regular season games (its hard to be a sharks fan on the east coast and catch all regular season games but I ensure to see all playoffs). He’s been my top rated sharks player for a while - I thought he was our best player even when Pavs was here in 2018-19. 19-20 I believed the same thing. In the playoffs even, in 18-19 I believed Hertl made a huge difference. Analytically Hertl gains a stronger case, but once again as many have you have said - his point totals aren’t eye popping and to be elite he needs to drive point totals higher but also he’s not all points. And he’s also dealt with career detailing injuries that probably have stifled his full potential and hurt his career (unfortunately Dustin Brown is a person, lol jk I’ve kinda forgiven/ gave up that ill will).

I think it’s fair to say Hertl is just a good 1C, but I also believe it’s fair to say he’s elite - it’s a lot of subjectivity but in my rankings I would say Hertl is elite, but not near the top of the food chain by any means.


I guess it just depends on your definition of “elite”

I hold elite to a higher standard. These terms are all subjective anyways there isn’t a true definition for elite/franchise/1st line etc
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21 nov 2020 à 17 h 41
#83
StarWars addict here
Rejoint: mai 2017
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Modifié 21 nov 2020 à 17 h 46
Quoting: mhockey91
I guess it just depends on your definition of “elite”

I hold elite to a higher standard. These terms are all subjective anyways there isn’t a true definition for elite/franchise/1st line etc


I believe there's a way to have an objective definition:
Franchise level player: a guy who'll make the HoF while also being considered to be the of one of the very best players of his generation
Elite: players who can carry a team
Top line plyers: great players but players who need to have help in order to have sustained success, like these kind of players likely can't make 3rd liners look like top liners, even for a short time like a few weeks

I could go on but I hope u get the point
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
21 nov 2020 à 17 h 45
#84
Thank You GMJR
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 15,556
Mentions "j'aime": 6,675
Quoting: KakkoForMauriceRichardAward
I believe there's a way to have an objective definition:
Franchise level player: a guy who'll make the HoF while also being considered to be the of one of the very best players of his generation
EliteSticking Out Tonguelayers who can carry a team
Top line plyers: great players but players who need to have help in order to have sustained success, like these kind of players likely can't make 3rd liners look like top liners, even for a short time like a few weeks

I could go on but I hope u get the point


yeah I like this tbh.

id probably slot Hertl in as a top line player then. great player, but he can't carry a team
 
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