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Kuokkanen

Créé par: GenericUsername489
Équipe: 2020-21 Devils du New Jersey
Date de création initiale: 26 août 2020
Publié: 26 août 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
What is Kuokkanen's value? Trade is for Johnsson because a Leafs trade will get a few more clicks. I think he's currently the Devils #4 prospect and after the draft he probably drops to #6 just because of where the Devils are drafting.
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26 août 2020 à 2 h 50
#1
#LeafsFever
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Based on what the Leafs got for Kapanen, Johnsson's value should be somewhere around the Devils latest 1st round pick (ideally, Vancouver I would think) plus someone like Kuokkanen, or McLeod. I have always liked Kuokkanen's game, he plays a solid defensive game, and sure the Leafs could use depth at center behind Matthews and Tavares, but I do not consider Kuokkanen's projectability beyond a bottom-6, and that would be generous. I would actually project the Leaf's newest prospect, Hallander, as having a higher ceiling than Koukkanen, even though he may not be as NHL-ready.
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26 août 2020 à 2 h 59
#2
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GenericUsername489
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Quoting: MG1986
Based on what the Leafs got for Kapanen, Johnsson's value should be somewhere around the Devils latest 1st round pick (ideally, Vancouver I would think) plus someone like Kuokkanen, or McLeod. I have always liked Kuokkanen's game, he plays a solid defensive game, and sure the Leafs could use depth at center behind Matthews and Tavares, but I do not consider Kuokkanen's projectability beyond a bottom-6, and that would be generous. I would actually project the Leaf's newest prospect, Hallander, as having a higher ceiling than Koukkanen, even though he may not be as NHL-ready.


I appreciate your take but just one thing: I don't think any trade should have its value compared to what happened with Kapanen. That just seems like JR being JR and not something that most GMs would consider. Until more trades like these occur, I think us fans have to consider this trade an anomaly.
26 août 2020 à 5 h 37
#3
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Quoting: MG1986
Based on what the Leafs got for Kapanen, Johnsson's value should be somewhere around the Devils latest 1st round pick (ideally, Vancouver I would think) plus someone like Kuokkanen, or McLeod. I have always liked Kuokkanen's game, he plays a solid defensive game, and sure the Leafs could use depth at center behind Matthews and Tavares, but I do not consider Kuokkanen's projectability beyond a bottom-6, and that would be generous. I would actually project the Leaf's newest prospect, Hallander, as having a higher ceiling than Koukkanen, even though he may not be as NHL-ready.


NJD should neither do Koukkanen for Johnsson nor a 1st for Johnsson (and certainly not both for Johnsson).

Maltsev + a 2021 4th is probably about right for Johnsson

Koukkanen + 1st should get Sandin, Liljergren, Robertson, etc level of return
26 août 2020 à 7 h 21
#4
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Quoting: GenericUsername489
I appreciate your take but just one thing: I don't think any trade should have its value compared to what happened with Kapanen. That just seems like JR being JR and not something that most GMs would consider. Until more trades like these occur, I think us fans have to consider this trade an anomaly.


You've got to consider the trades but you dont have to replicate them. If anything, the Kapanen trade shows us that as 40ish point winger isnt worth the 3rd round pick everyone around here valued Johnsson at. The valuation was absurd to start with and we've now been shown it was way off.
26 août 2020 à 7 h 48
#5
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You won the Kappy trade for sure.
But there is no way Fitz is giving that up for a guy who is dinged up as much as AJ. Could you get Mcleid for him 1for1, sure. A furst is laughable. Enjoy that you beat Rutherford, it won't just continue that way
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26 août 2020 à 11 h 28
#6
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Quoting: Smitty426
You won the Kappy trade for sure.
But there is no way Fitz is giving that up for a guy who is dinged up as much as AJ. Could you get Mcleid for him 1for1, sure. A furst is laughable. Enjoy that you beat Rutherford, it won't just continue that way


I assume too much for AJ is the guy saying Kuokkanen/McLeod ana a 1st. Is just Kuokkanen fine for AJ since you said McLeod 1 for 1 is possible?
26 août 2020 à 12 h 1
#7
#LeafsFever
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
NJD should neither do Koukkanen for Johnsson nor a 1st for Johnsson (and certainly not both for Johnsson).

Maltsev + a 2021 4th is probably about right for Johnsson

Koukkanen + 1st should get Sandin, Liljergren, Robertson, etc level of return


Haha I just love how people still give so little love (and perhaps respect) to young top-6, or at least fringe top-6 players that have 20 goals under their belt with good AAV and term. Sure, he got sidelined with a leg injury but if nothing else in game 5 versus Columbus, Keefe showcased the fact that Johnsson is full recovered. He should get the Leafs a late 1st, early 2nd plus a good prospect, if the team wanted to go that route. Fans can huff and puff and say whatever they want, but the Kappy comp is fresh and its out there, so just accept that.
26 août 2020 à 12 h 4
#8
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Quoting: GenericUsername489
I appreciate your take but just one thing: I don't think any trade should have its value compared to what happened with Kapanen. That just seems like JR being JR and not something that most GMs would consider. Until more trades like these occur, I think us fans have to consider this trade an anomaly.


A comp is a comp. Every circumstance or situation differs slightly from one GM to another when making these trades, especially this excuse that JR was under some sort of enormous pressure to pull the trigger on something and had no other choice. Once a trade comp is out there, especially as fresh as it is, it will be used for future dealings. So, look to young fringe top-6 to get similar value to Kapanen, and you can accept that, or not, but that's how the business of hockey trades work. Value goes up and down on a player in a large part to market value, which is often taken from comps. You, like so many others, may choose to disagree, but that's how trading in the NHL largely works, especially when you are dealing with future packages, as opposed to more hockey-esque style trades.
26 août 2020 à 12 h 18
#9
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Quoting: MG1986
Haha I just love how people still give so little love (and perhaps respect) to young top-6, or at least fringe top-6 players that have 20 goals under their belt with good AAV and term. Sure, he got sidelined with a leg injury but if nothing else in game 5 versus Columbus, Keefe showcased the fact that Johnsson is full recovered. He should get the Leafs a late 1st, early 2nd plus a good prospect, if the team wanted to go that route. Fans can huff and puff and say whatever they want, but the Kappy comp is fresh and its out there, so just accept that.


Johnsson is a 25 year-old with 30 career goals. If a team offers a 1st + prospect for him, take it and run!

Quoting: MG1986
A comp is a comp. Every circumstance or situation differs slightly from one GM to another when making these trades, especially this excuse that JR was under some sort of enormous pressure to pull the trigger on something and had no other choice. Once a trade comp is out there, especially as fresh as it is, it will be used for future dealings. So, look to young fringe top-6 to get similar value to Kapanen, and you can accept that, or not, but that's how the business of hockey trades work. Value goes up and down on a player in a large part to market value, which is often taken from comps. You, like so many others, may choose to disagree, but that's how trading in the NHL largely works, especially when you are dealing with future packages, as opposed to more hockey-esque style trades.


True, GMs act in a market place, where prices set by the participants.

However, the PIT trade probably says more about the weakness of the 2020 draft....than it does tell us anything about other players like Johnsson.
26 août 2020 à 12 h 27
#10
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
True, GMs act in a market place, where prices set by the participants.

However, the PIT trade probably says more about the weakness of the 2020 draft....than it does tell us anything about other players like Johnsson.


The weakness of the 2020 draft? As in this draft class is bad?
26 août 2020 à 12 h 30
#11
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
NJD should neither do Koukkanen for Johnsson nor a 1st for Johnsson (and certainly not both for Johnsson).

Maltsev + a 2021 4th is probably about right for Johnsson

Koukkanen + 1st should get Sandin, Liljergren, Robertson, etc level of return


I think the Devils should let guys like Kuokkanen and Maltsev play and see who shakes out. If they need stop gap veteran talent, they should utilize free agency and cap dumps.
26 août 2020 à 12 h 37
#12
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Quoting: GenericUsername489
The weakness of the 2020 draft? As in this draft class is bad?


The 2020 draft class, as a whole, is average - but mostly gets good ratings because the strength of the forwards at the top of the class. Once you are past pick 10-12, it is a rather weak draft.

It is a good year to trade from back-half of 1st round. In other words... picks #16-31 in 2019 and 2021 will be better than picks #16-31 this year.
26 août 2020 à 14 h 44
#13
#LeafsFever
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Johnsson is a 25 year-old with 30 career goals. If a team offers a 1st + prospect for him, take it and run!



True, GMs act in a market place, where prices set by the participants.

However, the PIT trade probably says more about the weakness of the 2020 draft....than it does tell us anything about other players like Johnsson.


I am not even sure what the say here. The 2020 draft, especially the first round, is a very deep draft. Where are you getting all this stuff?
26 août 2020 à 15 h 23
#14
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Quoting: MG1986
I am not even sure what the say here. The 2020 draft, especially the first round, is a very deep draft. Where are you getting all this stuff?


Depends on where you pick!

The 2020 class is above-average for the top dozen or so players. Below-average for next 30-40. Then average-to-slightly-above-average for rest.
 
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