Signiifcantly wrong when looking at the Charts. Werenski is a powerplay specialist.

and when it comes to defense its much of the same thing. Werenski doesn't make an offensive threat more than Dunn does. He has a better shot sure, but being more effective. Dunn takes the cake.

Defensively

Note that the lower the percentage is on defense the better, and the higher the percentage is the better on offense. Meaning Werenski effects the team worse on both sides, and Dunn effects the Blues better on both sides. This is circumstantial to what Werenski has been doing on the ice which is getting carried. So again Dunn is over the level of Werenski no matter what opinion you have, but Dunn has been super effective on the ice for the Blues which is why I would rather have Dunn than Werenski. Not saying Werenski is bad or anything, but Dunn is just better.

Like I said he might have a better shot, but that certainly isn't translating to anywhere else on the offense.

I appreciate what you’re saying, but, at the end of the day, actual points trumps projected points. If it was close, I’d listen to the advanced stats, but it’s not close. You can say that Werenski has more minutes, but you’re assuming that Dunn would score more if given more minutes. Point production doesn’t increase linearly with TOI. Higher TOI = harder minutes, against tougher opponents, when you’re more fatigued. What’s the quality of Werenski’s minutes vs. Dunn? Moreover, you can say that Werenski gets more PP time than Dunn, but he also plays over 2 mins of PK time per game, whereas Dunn plays 0 mins. You going to consider that and how those extra minutes could drain Werenski’s energy so that he’s less effective offensively 5-on-5. No, of course not.

Again, i understand your position, but, if we’re going to play that game I have a bunch of charts that show Yamamoto is a better player than Draisaitl because p/60 says so say. If the point totals were even remotely close, I’d consider the advanced stats, but they’re not. Werenski is categorically a better player and no advanced stat chart will change that.



Lol... so goals and point totals are just for dumbies. “What’s the score dad? Forget the score, thats for simple people. Least check out CF%... because that’s how games are won and lost, right?”.

Vince Dunn > Zach Werenski... hahahah... what a load of nonsense. Still waiting for that useless chart brah!

Team game so let's say Yakupov plays with McDavid he gets 95 points and 80 of them are assists to McDavid. By your logic Yakupov is a Top 10 Forward in the League because of points. Because Points. Good luck with telling anyone that bud lmao. I can't even argue with you anymore you are so dumb. Seth Jones does that for Werenski bud. Anderson does that for Werenski bud. Almost every single top 6 forward in Columbus does that for Werenski bud. But nvm I will remember when some player goes from 5 points to 80 because he is now with McDavid and now he is a Top 10 Forward because of Points. Have fun bud.

Apparently Perron is better than Couturier because Perron has 53 Points and 20 Goals whereas Couturier has 46 points and 13 Goals. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA Cya Genius.

None of those charts adjust for quality of possession/opposition. Dunn sits behind Gunnarsson and Boumeester in the depth chart and faces far weaker competition that Werenski, who is 1st pairing. Also, STL has a better forward corp than CLB, which helps. You’re also taking a 1 seasons sample size, when both Werenski and Dunn have been in the NHL longer than that.

I think advanced stats are useful, but you’re just abusing them to prove something that is categorically wrong. If you’d take Dunn over Werenski, fine. That’s you’re decision. I disagree and I’m sure 99% of NHL fans would take Werenski over Dunn. You’re are of course welcome to your opinion though, based on whatever numbers you wish use.

you want to know why he sits behind them? Because if you put Pietrangelo and Dunn together its a hot mess of only Offensive Defenseman. Jay Bouwmeester is only good with Parayko because Parayko can pick him up. Until you can actually understand what the Blues are doing go try to win a cup losing 16-20 games in a row again.

If Yakupov put up 95 pts consistently across multiple seasons, even playing with McDavid, yes, I would class him as a good player. What’s weird about that? So you think points have different values or a goal from a “bad advanced stats player” is worth less than one with “good advanced stats”. A goals a goal. I want goal scorers on my team that actually produced 50 goals, not some kid who had great g/60 numbers, but never hit 50 because he didn’t get enough minutes or was injured or [insert excuse] or [insert excuse] or [insert excuse].



The problem is that you’re assuming I judge a player on one season like you though, which I don’t. Players have ups and downs in their careers, which makes it important to consider multiple seasons. I am not trying to oversimplify the game the way you are.

Talking about CF% when Dunn has a 54.3, and Werenski has a 47.8 lmao. You clearly have no understanding of hockey. Go watch the Angels play or something because you are now just being completely ignorant because you don't want to be wrong.

The reason Dunn is behind them is [insert excuse here].

*show advanced stat chart to justify why player stuck at #3/3 on the depth chart is better than a 1st pairing guy on another team*

We are talking about this year, and considering who Werenski had last year. This is the year that shows why he was overrated bud, but that's a classic comment "I use multiple years because he had more quality last year so i'm not wrong" why not look at this for a change. Dunn's teammate is f*ckin Bortuzzo, you know who Werenski linemate is f*ckin Seth Jones. Now how come is Dunn playing top lines and playing better with a worse linemate. Obviously Werenski is going to have more points because guess what he has Seth Jones on his line.

You’re right. That’s better than 99% of D-men in the league, so Dunn is better than Josi, Doughty, Provorov, Carlsson, Hedman... the list goes on. He’s even better than Pietrangelo and Parayko.

This is what happens when you don’t consider “quality of possession/opposition”, but I’m an idiot and should go watch baseball. Gotcha!

You could learn something from NHL 20 know how the lines ratings change depending on what players you put together yeah, Berube has done that. Dunn last year played Top line during stanley cup, and earlier this year. Then Gunnarsson came back and wasnt doing well so guess what it was a LINE CHANGE.

quality of teammate 49.3 quality of competition 56.5 Dunn

quality of Teammate 57.3 quality of competition 55.8 Werenski

Just because Dunn is on the third line he plays against Top Lines all the time. It's like our fourth line last year they would start the Stanley Cup Game.

No source? Anyone could put those numbers there.

P.S. quality of teammates and quality of competition is a meaningless stat and is basically a weighted +/- stat based on TOI with/against a teammate/opponent. This is the point. Hockey is complicated and a players ability cannot be converted into a digit on a piece of paper.

Maybe "historically great" is rewriting history a bit, but I'm still pushing back on Allen having little value. You'll forgive me if I throw out his stats in SCFG3 when the entire team melted down, Binnington allowed six and then Allen had to go in relief. Furthermore, we only got bounced once in the first round when Allen was even on the roster, let alone the starter, and that was in 2015. It hasn't been "so many times", and it certainly wasn't largely Allen's fault. Look at the skaters on that team, Jori Lehtera was our #1 center, it's a miracle we even made the playoffs.

I'm not going to try and say Allen is definitely a starter and a fantastic goalie, but really he only had two down years, last year and the year before. Given that a third of the teams in the league have garbage goaltending (a group that included Columbus until a month ago and could still include them again), that Allen is having an elite, yes, elite season this year, and that there is a precedent for goalies to excel in a change of scenery (Dubnyk, Elliot, Mrazek, Kemper), I think there will be a good market for Allen with only one year left on his contract, we won't be dumping him off on someone, and I don't think I'm sugar-coating him there at all. I'd like to keep him actually, but it's a cap league.

And obviously stressing again that I don't think the proposed trade is a good one. Just think that Allen has recouped more value than most people think.

FWIW, I think TOR should have gone after Allen instead of Campbell, who truly is awful. Whilst I wouldn’t invest heavily into Allen expecting him to be my starter long-term, it is hard to argue with his numbers this season. If Campbell is pulling 2 x 3rd with conditions, it’s hard to argue against Allen getting at least a 2nd, possibly more.