Grubauer was in similar position when traded from Capitals to AVs, Grubauer's stats were also alot better while in Washington vs Georgiev's in the Rangers.

But similar situation, I mean Capitals had Holtby and Copely just Rangers have Lundqvist and Shesterkin.

That trade was Grubauer and 5.5 million cap dump for only a 2nd rounder.


Why does Georgiev fetch Johnsson? Bracco and 3rd should more than enough.

It doesn't. Anyone suggesting otherwise isn't looking at the situation fairly. Your Grubaur example is not the only one..Bishop comes to mind.

safe to presume your evaluation of goalies is limited to GAA and Sv% right?

I'd argue the difference in age and how past backups of the New York Rangers have Performed

Ya I kinda agree there. I only did this trade because I figured Rangers fans would hate the trade you suggested.

But.....but.....Dreger.......



And yours is ?

Bracco has 3 goals in 40 games. 40 AHL games. Bracco and a 3rd should get you a better 3rd.

Every fan base has homers....been seeing Chicago homers saying Kapanen+ is fair for Georgiev but as soon as Grubaur and Bishop are brought up they can't come up with good logic for such a trade.

I know the Leafs and their fans are hated here so trades and opinions get tilted against them....but then passing it off as unbiased is just laughable.

You want to argue games playes and wins by Grubauer while he was Capital VS Georgiev with the Rangers????

The 2 major metrics for evaluating goaltenders properly are dFSV% and GSAx. Over the last 3 seasons, among all goaltenders Georgiev ranks in the top 15 in both.

That's a good foundation because it gives us something to measure against with a nice large sample size. Over the last 10 years there have been 3 goalies to put up those numbers (well 4 if we count Martin Jones but he was traded after 2 NHL seasons) and have been traded. They are:

Philip Grubauer: Traded at age 26 with Brooks Orpik (equivalent of a 1st or 2nd rounder depending on your valuation - reference: Marleau cost a 1st and the cap hit difference was less than a mil) for a 2nd.
Cory Schneider: Traded at age 27 for 12th Overall Pick.
Frederick Anderson: Traded at age 26 for a 1st and 2nd Round pick.
Martin Jones: Traded at age 25 for a 1st round pick and Sean Kuraly.

Now Georgiev is younger (23) meaning his rights with the team are held for longer. That would inherently make him more valuable. The lowest any comparable players were dealt for is ~2 2nd rounders (and even that might be a low estimate). Really Georgiev's value is around a 1st heh.

Again, just using the stats here and the comparables, these aren't opinions.

Georgiev from 21-23 is basically putting up close to the same performance that Grubbauer had from 24-26. That's pretty crazy.

Georgiev has 1 problem, games played.
He has played only enough games that say he is backup, therefore he is only a backup right now.

To change this, he has to play more but one could argue that he has already started to lose backup starts to a AHL goalie.

The Schneider and Andersen comparisons dont work, they were starters when traded and from timeline sense those trades happened too long ago to use as comparable for Georgiev.

The Grubauer trade was 2018 and the Bishop trade was in 2017, much more reasonable comparables.


BTW, how does Martin Jones look right now?


Yes Georgiev is younger but that stat cuts both ways, it's why he is a backup right now and NOT a starter.

He was also AHL point leader the year before but good job pointing out selective stats.

And to your point about younger goalies....goalies take way more time to develop than D and forwards.

If anyone needs poof of this...here's a few names who were highly touted (some even 1st round picks) that couldn't even figure out how to be backups in this league: Justin Pogge, Jeff Glass, Vesa Toskala, Justin Peters.

These are just the names I thought of...if I do more research I bet I could come up with more names. This is why teams are drafting goalies less and less in the first round. The investment is long one and still ends up being a crap shoot.

Refreshing to see an NYR team valuing Georgiev properly! Well almost, Johnsson is a proven NHL 20 goals scorer with grit, maybe adding a 3rd or 4th round pick from NYR makes it even.

Unclear what the points being made are here...

Anyway, to try and bring some facts here. If you're saying the only issue is Games Played well then it's not an issue...

Georgiev had 30 starts last year and is on pace for about 38 starts this year.

The 2 years before Schneider was traded: 28 starts and 30 starts
The 2 years before Andersen was traded: 53 starts and 37 starts (should probably note Andersen was traded for a 1st AND 2nd)
The 2 years before Grubbauer was traded: 19 starts and 28 starts
The 2 years before Jones was traded: 19 starts and 15 starts

So to emphasize your point. Georgiev was getting more starts than 3/4 goalies traded for 1st rounders. He's younger and just as good.

The value is at least a 1st...

Johnsson's also a 25 year old who's played over 60% of his minutes with Auston Matthews over the past 2 seasons and has yet to eclipse a 48 point pace.... or better said: He's a poor man's Ryan Strome at this point who's just about at his development peak.

So you went back even further than Schneider and Andersen trades?
Those are just not gonna be recent enough.

Also, what was Schneider and Andersen ages when traded?
Not 23 right? Someone said Georgiev is younger.

Georgiev is a backup goalie.

The point is that Georgiev still has way more to prove and his worth is not as high as you are saying it is. The Grubaur and Bishop trades are the right comparables but the fact that Georgiev has not proven he's a starter yet means he has less value.

You can hate the Grubaur and Bishop comparables but those are fair.

Oh I don't mind the Grubbauer comp. Grubbauer was traded for a 2nd and Brooks Orpik. Orpik was an immediate buyout candidate making 7% cap hit on a 1 year deal. Conveniently, we know the cost of what buying out a 7% cap hit is. Marleau was just bought out from his 7% cap hit on a 1 year deal for a 1st round pick.

It's not at all a leap to then say Grubbauer was traded for a late 1st + 2nd in terms of value. (same as Andersen), And considering the cost of trading up from a late 1st to a mid 1st (what Schneider was traded for) is a 2nd at least then you could reasonably say that all Grubbauer, Andersen and Schneider were traded for a late 1st + 2nd. Jones is the outlier because he was only traded for a late 1st, which makes sense because he had wayy less of a pedigree than the other 3 goaltenders, including Georgiev.

Not sure what Bishop has to do with this.. he was traded as a 30 year old UFA making 6 mil...

The trade was Grubauer and Orpik for 2nd, not Grubauer for 2nd and Orpik.

This indicates to me the value would have been less if Orpik was NOT a part of the trade, it was a 2nd rounder because of the cap dump.

Yes Orpik got bought out after, but that was not a part of the trade.

Right. The cost of taking on Orpik's contract was worth a 1st

Just like the cost of taking Marleau's contract was a 1st.

Do you not understand the idea here?

This is how these sort of trades work

Wrong, it means Grubauer alone would have fetched less not not more.

In 2017, Bishop only fetched a 4th rounder.

LOL bye Troll. Welcome to the Ignore list.

Dont let the door hit you in the ass as you leave.

Younger goalies are worth less because it takes more time, development and maturing to become just an NHL backup, being starter in the NHL? Another story.

This is why we are seeing goalies being picked less and less in the first round. They are a crap shoot and most of the time only getting a backup.