Given how helpful a power forward would be on the Lightning's roster, especially one who has the speed to keep up with other forwards and scores a lot of goals, I was curious to see how difficult it would be to fit Kreider on our roster.
To conclude, it could fit without losing any major pieces. Point would have to sign a bridge deal, which the team probably wants to see anyway. Signing a bridge means a lower AAV, so I don't think what I signed him for is as ridiculous as it might seem, but it's definitely the lowest we could possibly expect to get him for. Condon would have to go, and that would be a major loss for Syracuse and contradict what BriseBois said his plans was. Plans do change and it's not like Wedgewood can't handle an AHL starting role, so while that move would be doable, he needs somewhere to go. Rutta would also have to go and be replaced by a player making League minimum. I chose Colorado because they have plenty of cap space for this season, and, after losing Varlamov, could use an insurance policy in case Francouz has trouble in his backup role. Condon isn't exactly a good option, but considering they only have one minor league goalie (according to CapFriendly) and no cap issues this year, it can't hurt. Rutta is another perhaps unnecessary insurance policy for them, but he's still a serviceable defenseman who could maybe get them a low pick in a trade, so for them, it's a no-lose situation. Meanwhile, Domingue in Columbus might get a chance to try a bigger role now that they lost Bobrovsky. Koorpisalo is obviously the immediate replacement, but considering his save percentage was below 0.900 (while Bobrovsky was 0.913), there's definitely room for someone else to try to fit.
I'm assuming Joseph will be moved sooner or later because re-signing him will be a bit difficult, and a cap-controlled young forward who can play on their roster immediately and add some speed seems ideal for the Rangers. Rangers fans I've seen have said they're hoping for a 1st+, so I figured I would give them a 1st to make sure the return is reasonable, though it wouldn't be a high pick, so in case there's still any doubt, I added a 3rd.
These moves leave us with literally zero flexibility. Foote, Volkov, Raddysh, and Stephens can't get call-ups, all of our scratches have to be League minimum, and if there are more than three injuries, someone has to be LTIR'd or played anyway, or we'd have to play with fewer than 20 people. So it's not ideal, but it works.
If we do a trade like this, my guess is that we'd want the Rangers to retain, which they can do now that Shattenkirk has been bought out. That gives us some flexibility to give Point a contract he might actually sign, for example. Rutta moving is unlikely (replacing Gaunce with Rutta costs $600k), and if Point was $1m extra and we want to have room for call-ups, NYR would have to retain close to 50% to grant us total flexibility. I think they have the cap space, but we'd probably have to add a decent prospect, at least, to the return.
Am I missing anything we can do to gain a little bit of cap? Do other people think it's possible to get Kreider without magically making an NTC disappear, or is it unlikely?
CBJ has that new guy ... i don't think they need Domingue.
He's never played in the NHL, though. They're definitely not desperate, but I would think they might want to get him since he's cheap just in case. If not, don't the Leafs need a backup goalie? I know they don't really have cap space, but it's not like Domingue is much more expensive than a League minimum player. I would really be surprised if we couldn't find anyone who would take Domingue.
Seems like a big price for Kreider who the Rangers almost have to trade anyway. Looking at the Tampa defence, maybe cap should be spent on a Dman or two, not Kreider.
Joseph is a very promising young player. I think him and a 1st should be enough for a Kreider rental. Forget the 2nd.
Probably won't get much for Domingue. Maybe a 5th or a 4th.
And moving Rutta means Schenn is a regular in the lineup, which I'm not completely comfortable with, especially if an injury in the top 4 happens.
Good point. Keeping Rutta would only cost $600k more than placing a League minimum player in his spot. I wanted to see what would happen if the Rangers didn’t retain, so in that case he would have to go. But I don’t see BriseBois trying without any retention. $2m would let us sign Point to a deal he might actually sign, keep Rutta, and call-up Foote or Volkov when we want (as long as we send someone else down or someone is LTIR’d). As for the package, would NYR retain salary for anything less? They have a tiny bit of space and are just looking for flexibility, so even with retention, this trade would do that, but obviously they would prefer not to retain and will refuse unless we make it worth it by overpaying.
Seems like a big price for Kreider who the Rangers almost have to trade anyway. Looking at the Tampa defence, maybe cap should be spent on a Dman or two, not Kreider.
A top-four RHD would be really helpful, but, as past playoffs have shown, we could use a big power forward as well. I don’t know how much Cooper and BriseBois trust Rutta/Schenn/Witkowski/Foote at the moment, but I guess that would make the difference in how those needs are prioritized, since we can definitely not do both. Which top-four RHDs could we get on a one-year deal with a low AAV? The problem is that I don’t think there are any now that Barrie is in Toronto.
It’s definitely a pretty good package going to NYR, but we will probably have to move Joseph after his contract ends anyway, whereas maybe NYR can keep him. Also, with a package like this, maybe the Rangers would retain, which would make this a lot more plausible. I definitely don’t see them retaining at anything less.
But do they have room to retain? And if we want retention (we probably need $2m to get a more realistic deal for Point, keep Rutta, and keep enough cap to call up prospects when we want), is this package still enough?
A 1 year Kreider rental isn't worth close to above .. Condon going nowhere .. lets hope someone likes a NTC of ours and vice versa .. a top 4 RD is more important now for Tampa
Joseph is too valuable to include for a one year rental Kreider. Stephens or ABB plus TBL 2020 1st plus conditional 2021 3rd(becomes a 2nd if he resigns or TBL win the cup in 2020) is a more realistic trade. After Tampa trades Dominguez, they will have approx 12.25 to work with, so Point's contract will determine what, if anything, they could do with Kreider. If Point signs for 8 or less, maybe it could work with a small retention from NYR. Either way, Joseph should not be on the table here.
Joseph is too valuable to include for a one year rental Kreider. Stephens or ABB plus TBL 2020 1st plus conditional 2021 3rd(becomes a 2nd if he resigns or TBL win the cup in 2020) is a more realistic trade. After Tampa trades Dominguez, they will have approx 12.25 to work with, so Point's contract will determine what, if anything, they could do with Kreider. If Point signs for 8 or less, maybe it could work with a small retention from NYR. Either way, Joseph should not be on the table here.
The only reason I thought Joseph might be moved in a potential Kreider deal is that I don’t think we can afford to re-sign him anyway. So if we can’t re-sign either of them after this season, it becomes mostly a question of who is more valuable for just next season. BriseBois surely has some plan for next offseason, so if it involves re-signing Joseph, then this deal won’t happen. But I just don’t see how Joseph fits under the cap after this season.
A 1 year Kreider rental isn't worth close to above .. Condon going nowhere .. lets hope someone likes a NTC of ours and vice versa .. a top 4 RD is more important now for Tampa
The issue is really availability. Is any top-four RHD available who will fit under our cap but probably be better than Sergachev with Hedman? A power forward is a secondary need, but Kreider is available, whereas I don’t think a top-four RHD is. Plus, because Kreider is on a relatively cap-controlled one-year deal, we don’t have to worry about NTCs. I don’t think anyone will waive.
The only reason I would suggest moving Joseph is because I don’t see us being able to re-sign him. The trade is skewed to NYR as is, but realistically for it to work, we would need retention and that brings it closer to an even deal. If BriseBois thinks we can re-sign Joseph, then this trade would be very bad. BriseBois said he doesn’t intend to move Condon, but I would that could change if we suddenly need that cap, since he’s far from irreplaceable. If BriseBois finds a top-four RHD, that’s a better trade than this one, but if none are available, it’s better to fill a less important need than to not fill any of our needs.
If Joseph continues to progress in only his 2nd full season with the big club, I can't believe JBB lets him become a cap casualty. It will be impossible to keep everyone after this year, and certain players performances will certainly influence those decisions. Even though I think Killorn is a very solid 3rd liner and playoff contributor, his 4.45 hit likely means he is the first loss next off season. Rutta is likely gone as well. Carle's buyout of 1.83 comes off the books. Depending on what Point signs for and what the cap goes up to will then determine who else has to go. Syracuse players like Volkov, ABB, Verheague and C. Foote should also be in the lineup by then as well. This is a big year for Sergachev and Palat, can Serg handle non sheltered minutes in the top 4 and take a step forward? His next contract and future in Tampa will be greatly affected by the answer. Palat needs to rebound in a big way, if not then he needs to be convinced to waive his ntc or worst case, be bought out after next season. Tampa can not be sacrificing rising young talent like Cirelli or Joseph to keep a guy who can't even score 10 goals playing on the PP1 and getting top line minutes.
If Joseph continues to progress in only his 2nd full season with the big club, I can't believe JBB lets him become a cap casualty. It will be impossible to keep everyone after this year, and certain players performances will certainly influence those decisions. Even though I think Killorn is a very solid 3rd liner and playoff contributor, his 4.45 hit likely means he is the first loss next off season. Rutta is likely gone as well. Carle's buyout of 1.83 comes off the books. Depending on what Point signs for and what the cap goes up to will then determine who else has to go. Syracuse players like Volkov, ABB, Verheague and C. Foote should also be in the lineup by then as well. This is a big year for Sergachev and Palat, can Serg handle non sheltered minutes in the top 4 and take a step forward? His next contract and future in Tampa will be greatly affected by the answer. Palat needs to rebound in a big way, if not then he needs to be convinced to waive his ntc or worst case, be bought out after next season. Tampa can not be sacrificing rising young talent like Cirelli or Joseph to keep a guy who can't even score 10 goals playing on the PP1 and getting top line minutes.
Unless Killorn magically turns into the best player in the League (which wouldn’t happen for someone that old), I’m assuming he’s moved. Same with Rutta, who probably gets replaced by Foote. Condon and Domingue will definitely be gone. The Carle buyout ends. But still, in my A-GMs, even when I traded Killorn and Rutta for picks, I could barely re-sign everyone to reasonable bridges under the cap even with Joseph gone, and now Vasilevskiy is signed to $2.5m more than I had thought (I had Gibson as a comparable). I don’t know about buying out Palat even without a major rebound, just because that only saves us $2m year one (so it might not let us fit everyone), and becomes a major burden in the long-run when every bridge expires. The best case scenario, without a rebound or waived NTC, is that we waive Palat and he gets claimed. Letting Sergachev go instead of Joseph is interesting. It definitely depends on this season when Sergachev sees top-four minutes. But I feel like one of the two is going to be a cap casualty, and neither are assets we want to lose.
If Palat rebounds, Gourde or Johnson probably have to go instead to keep everyone else. Even then, we barely fit. Do most GMs manage to make players waive NTCs when it’s necessary? I honestly haven’t followed hockey long enough to know.
A 1 year Kreider rental isn't worth close to above .. Condon going nowhere .. lets hope someone likes a NTC of ours and vice versa .. a top 4 RD is more important now for Tampa
3 months of Kevin Hayes netted them a first and a prospect. Kreider is a better player and a full season rental costs a lot more. McDonagh got a 1st, second, and very good prospect (Libor Hajek). And now that the Rangers bought out Shattenkirk, they'll most likely retain salary on any trade to net more in return in a trade. I dont know much about Matheiu Joseph, but a good prospect and a 1st is a pretty standard price.
Mc Donough was going to sign long term contract so is not comparable plus deal had other parts .. Hayes was overpayment by desperate teams fighting for relevance.. Columbus Winnipeg Flyers etc.. Tampa not on that overpay field ... add Columbus to above teams .. what I suggest for you is to look at the "well run teams" .. Washington Pittsburgh Nashville Boston .. although they broke mold with Nash in 2018 .. etc
They don't do the stupid deals ..
But do they have room to retain? And if we want retention (we probably need $2m to get a more realistic deal for Point, keep Rutta, and keep enough cap to call up prospects when we want), is this package still enough?
After the Shattenkirk buyout, assuming Lemieux and DeAngelo accept their qualifying offers, we are under the cap. So we could retain salary on Kreider.
Zwui21 a aimé ceci.
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