Mad as in wow hes in the company of these other guys

ROR
55 points in 72 games
61 points in 81 games
77 points in 82 games

193 points in 235 games .82 ppg game and has - plus minus. Again plus minus isn’t a great stat but he’s a negative. I’m sure his turn over ratio is great idc to look.

Over the last 3 years he’s a -2. Again not the best stats but someone who is defensively gifted or elite should at least be a +

Kuzy

59 points in 82 games
83 points in 79 games
72 points in 76 games

214 points in 237 games. .9 ppg

Over this 3 years he’s a +28 haha

I’d say his regular season stats are better. And I think kuzy defensive numbers aren’t nearly as bad as you would think...... to each their own. Kuzy

He had a solid playoffs this season also btw. 6 points in 7 games. He’s an elite center..... and his line mate is a 30+ year old Ovechkin and Tom Wilson haha its not 22 year old Ovechkin hahaha

Obviously you're entitled to your own opinion but in my opinion the only that are for sure better are

Matthews
Tavares
Mcdavid
Crosby
Stamkos
Point
Bergeron
Malkin
Backstrom
Barkov
Scheifele
Kopitar
Couturier
Eichel
Seguin
Aho

So he can be as high as 15-20 for me IMO

Imagine using +/-... but wait theres more, 2/3 of the sample size was playing in buffalo when they got the 8th and 1st overall picks, meanwhile kuznetsovs team had 3 straight 48+ win seasons, you cant use age to judge ovechkin because he is an outlier in NHL history he led the league with 51 and hes literally the best goal scorer (era adjusted) to ever live also put some respect on tom wilsons name hed had great numbers for a top 6 forward in a shortened season and is a great glue guy if those arent good linemates I dont know who are

Kuznetsov wasn't on the top line so of course he is going to score more points. If he was on the top line he wouldn't have had as many points.

Pretty sure he was on the top line but sheltered against worse lines/pairs

ROR IMO is very similar to Toews and just a slight notch below what Toews has been in his best seasons. Toews at his best was a top 10 C. I'd put ROR around 12ish today. The 2 way play, net front presence and FO% is very similar to the way Toews plays. I'd love the guy on our team and think most would want him.

True but Ovechkin is hardly as active as he use to be. Kuzy zone entire rivals malkin.... Ovechkin is a god but he’s not moving around like he use to. Also Kuzy score above a ppg player largely into the caps 48+ win year. Worse case Kuzy is equal to ROR. buT AGREE to disagree

Haha what?!? So Ovechkin Kuzy and Wilson was the capitals 2nd line? That’s news to me haha come on man that’s just a dumb comment. At least know what you’re talking about before you talk

Fair enough

Even that is kinda generous but great insight and comparison, they're even tied in conn smythes now

Haha some call it sheltered some call it a matching up. I think trots matched him up in situations that best helped us score. Like I said 32 points seems like a solid mismatching not playing sheltered minutes. He played 20+ minutes a game. Again him and Ovi aren’t known for the defensive play so it could also be sheltered minutes. They didn’t play vs Crosby often. Hah

This isnt even about that 1 PO run, this is in general, that 2nd sentence is just another way to say he was being sheltered but obviously he earns his ice time

I edited my original post. But like I said him and Ovechkin are guys you put on the ice to prevent goals they are out there to score goals. So they won’t play against Crosby’s

I think players like Toews or ROR are somewhat undervalued. They aren't necessarily the top scoring centers or points guys, but they make a huge difference in the 200ft game when they're on the ice versus when they're not. Both hard nose players. Watching ROR play this series, and especially tonight, just brought back a lot of memories of Toews in the finals.

And they're great leaders

During SCF last year it was Backstrom Ovechkin as a lineup Kuzy was behind that line so not a dumb comment.

No. It was Kuzy Ovi and Wilson. Maybe a match up or a shift but that was the line for 90% of the playoffs and yeah it’s dumb. 1 bc the lines arent corrects 2 Bc you are saying If he was on the 2nd line he would score more ...... haha just silly but again to each their own

From an all round standpoint and especially defensively he is.

Holy recency bias batman. ROR is a fantastic 2C or a mid-to-low tier 1C. I'd say he's probably around top 30ish, but these lists are so subjective nobody can say for sure. It's a dumb topic to argue about

I know.

Defensively I'd give him but scheifele is amazing offensively and it just gives him the edge overall