This is a tough one. I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of trading both Nylander and Kadri, but all of the constructions I've done (all of which are much less radical), with or without trading Nikita Zaitsev, result in a terribly weak right-hand side on defense. This type of overhaul may be the answer, because it delivers an excellent potential for Kadri's replacement, leaves Toronto with a reasonable defense, and obtains a wonderfully high draft pick this year -- so high that I think that 2020 second may be over the top (particularly if the return for MacDonald is a second).

Agree with OldNYI Fan above that it would difficult for the Leafs to give up both Kadri and Nylander, only because you're depending on Frost to be NHL ready at centre. My thoughts it's too much for the Flyers to give up. I'm one who has devalued Nylander's trade value. Flyers keep their first rounder, and as a Leaf I would still do it. Some good thought on the trades.

Is the 11th overall worth Nylander? In a one for one, the Leafs would be making a mistake doing that deal however if the player was Kadri, that's probably a deal they'd make.
That leaves Frost, Gudas, MacDonald, and a 2nd for the other Leafs player. Again, a deal you could make for Kadri but not Nylander.

Most view Nylander, right now, as a cap dump...which is a mistake. This is a player that looked excellent at centre this year but couldn't buy a bounce or wingers with any talent. If he returns to Matthews wing along with Johnsson next year, 70 points should be expected. Maybe a lot more. And if he is the 3rd line centre with perhaps Kapanen and Moore, he could be in the 60+ range again with PP time.

Frost could be great too. Could. My ask for Kadri would be Frost and a 2020 1st... What did Hayes go for?

Not bad

I'm lining up with OldNy, Pal, and Goulet on this one.. it's a tough one.

I can see the benefit of moving one of Nylander or Kadri, and I can see how it'd be hard to give up on either. Nylander for all the reasons that have been debated forever on this site, and Kadri because he is the kind of player that I think Toronto needs more of, not less.

That said, Nylander really needs a bounce back year, but if the IIHF tourney is any indication it looks like he will, and in time his contract will look like a good one. Kadri struggled this year, in part, because of his diminished role and some crappy puck luck (it seemed like he was hitting the post almost every game..)imo... Also, he needs to be able to keep a lid on things - his suspension really cost us this year, and its an extra tough pill to swallow given where the Bruins are right now.

What I'd really like to see up front is something like this..

Kadri-JT-Hyman
Moore/the new Russian Kid-AM-Marner
Johnsson-Nylander-Kap

But.. like OldNy states, then our RS D becomes really green and kinda scary...

and that kinda seems to be the pickle that were in. Upgrade the D like you've done here, and take a gamble on the forwards being rearranged. Or try and keep the forwards in tact, and in doing so, we're taking a huge gamble on the d... and hoping like hell that the prospects pan out and Dermott can carry a heavier load..

Something has to give.

Spot on.

In terms of PHI trade i would stick with following two, coming from their fans :

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/225254

( guy is offering Gudas, Ratcliffe and a 2nd for Kadri as alternative, and i simulated it, it passes in terms of Cap )

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1155700

( original thread linked in first post )

This is one of the best overall roster constructions I have seen in a while.

This improves our D and we need the improvement.
But here is a question, while Dermott and Hyman are injured, what are you doing in those 2 spots?

As for Kadri from some other debate, he didnt struggle, he just was same as before :

Damn. I hate it when someone uses evidence and logic to destroy my argument and point of view..

Why you gotta be like that??

Not sure if anyone noticed but I left 3m in cap space. Personally I would sign spezza to a one year deal to fill the gap for one season. If needed. If frost turns out to be nhl good spezza can play 4c.

2020 season... leafs have 21-22m in cap space.

This wasn’t my trade, I’m not really for or against it. Frost will be a very good nhl player. The leafs could always ask for Laughton as well.

Marner was rarely on kadri’s wing. He was with bozak and Jvr. Kadri always had the misfit line.

Do you think it would be worth it if we could get Spezza as a 3C on a cheap and short deal? Is he washed up? Would Babcock even play him, or would he give him the Hitch treatment and healthy scratch him? What do you think Spezza gets on his next contract?

I ask all this cause he was one of my favorite players back in his prime.. which, obviously has past him by, but he still has skill that could be useful.

Why not:

Kadri-Tavares-marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Bracco
Moore-Nylander-kapanen

Well... other than the fact we can’t afford that lineup lol.

I would have loved to see that first line in the playoffs. Give marner 2 snipers that can both dig pucks and all 3 play avwicked defensive game.

Are you kidding? Babcock would probably play him like a 1c, give him 12 minutes in every third period. That’s why I’m only signing him to a 1 year deal. Spezza isn’t what he used to be but is for sure still nhl good and capable as a 3c.

Yeah, there were so many permutations we coulda tried this year and didnt for one reason or another i.e. Nylander hold out, Kadri suspension, injuries... Babs.. etc

We could afford that forward group if Marleau retires, although from the CJ interview it sounds like that option is out the window.. despite the rumours of his kids being enrolled in school for the fall in SJ. But rumours = Lucic trade..

Im still holding out some slight hope that he does hang them up.. its still a possibility. And if that does happen Id be more than happy if they keep the forwards in tact , play around with the line up options like we've laid out, and take the gamble on the young and green rsd.

Sigh. But like so many things in life, my hopes tend to get dashed..

Lol

If i’m Dubas I do everything in my power to keep Nylander. His upside is worth it.
Kadri out
Z is out
Kappy or Brown
Hopefully they get a good RHD out of it.
They are going to take a big hit.
Leafs are going to be great again in 2 years, when there young D prospects are ready.

I agree, nylander will shut all the detractors up next year and they’ll move on to something new to troll leafs fans about.

I’m actually quite surprised @palhal didn’t like this trade. By his standard I got a 12th overall, frost and Gudas for Kadri.

Spezza (on record saying this) doesn't care about money anymore, he wants to play. Babcock does love his vets... However, Nylander could be a great 3C on this team.

Give him a million and sort out the lineup later.

Why not reuniting Marleau and Thornton on third line.....just joking.....

I would leave spezza on as 3c and let nylander go wild with Matthews next season.

Everyone thought Draisaitl was overpaid at 8.5M...then he scored 40 and hit the century mark. To write off Nylander after a ****ty statistical season could be catastrophic.

Sure we could get England and hainsey on D too and go around the league challenging alumni teams... lol

Spezza, being a righty, could be better with Marleau than Jumbo...