Horton is on LTIR

The main page shows him as being on IR only.

No he is not and he will remain on Ir for the remainder of the season.

He is only on IR.
They are cap compliant, however this tool doesn't calculate cap space on a prorated basis like the main page does. Their cap space multiplies as the season progresses.

To answer your question first of all muzzin’s cap hit is about 2m. The other reason is cap hits due to leafs being over the roster limit. Finally nylander’s actual cap hit is pro rated at 6.9m due to the fact that he did not play the first third of the season.

At certain points, when playing this cap friendly game, I begin to think I shoulda paid more attention in computer programming, math and many other classes as a younger man..

Thanks for the clarity. I too, have been a bit baffled with that discrepancy today.

On the main page the projected cap space is what the expected cap room will be at the end of the year if the current roster (including injury reserves, call ups etc) does not change from now until the end of the year. It does not take into account current year performance bonuses. The projected cap space of 4 million includes Horton's 5.4 million cap hit.

The current cap space is how much cap (entire year cap of a player) they can add and meet the cap requirement at the end of the year. This cap room does not include potential LTIR reserves. So the leafs current cap space of 11 million does not included Horton's 5.4 million cap hit.

For the record Horton is on the LTIR but by the rules of the CBA is that CAP relief can not take place until there is no CAP room left. re: Horton's CAP hit must use CAP room up first if there is any left so that's why currently his cap hit is being treated as IR rules rather than LTIR rules. It comes down to the programming of this site,

So the order of using CAP room is. Active and IR players first, then LTIR players only up to no CAP room left (Any extra unused LTIR player cap becomes the reserve), and then if room left performance bonus. If there is not enough room for performance bonus then it gets carried over to next years cap.

So using the projected cap space at the end of the season of 4 mil which Horton's cap hit is already included they can pay up to 4 mil in performance bonuses without any carryover.

It's actual 1.498 something but I'm just being nit picky here...

Yeah I guess so, this season is just flying by lol.

Horton is listed as IR as far as I know unless they moved him recently.

Thanks, Gauss. So, if I'm getting this right, then this means that the leafs, as currently constructed, assuming someone gets sent down or waived, are fine for covering bonuses?? Y/N?

Man, this is a deep rabbit hole. . I think I preferred the Marleau conspiracy..

The leafs have a potential of paying 5.4 million in performance bonuses if all requirement are met so at the moment there could be up 1.4 million carryover. I doubt all 5.4 million will be payable so they should be OK

Clarity is a good thing.. thanks!

I think officially with the NHL he is on the LTIR. CapFriendly has him as IR due the programming of the calculations.

1. My understanding is that Horton is NOT on LTIR. Nor has he ever been at any time this season.

2. My understanding of the CBA is that, if you do place someone on LTIR for the purposes of raising the cap ceiling, you automatically have to pay all performance bonuses on next year's cap

3. #2 above is why #1 above is occurring

4. The only two players that are on pace to earn performance bonuses are Matthews and Marner. Marner tops out at $850k. Matthews has one bonus that tops out at $850k too but also has a secondary bonus that pays him $2m if he finishes top 10 in the NHL for goals or points per game. He's currently on pace to hit that so leafs needs to account for $3.7m on this year's cap to avoid any bonus carryover

5. The 2018-19 performance bonus figure shown on this site displays the max possible number. It's fluctuated with various Marlie call ups...but essentially matthews, marner, ozhiganov, lindholm and moore. But $3.7 is the key number as no one other than Matthews and Marner are anywhere close to hitting their bonus targets

5. As long as the leafs don't use LTIR...they don't HAVE to pay all performance bonuses this year. It's of course ideal to not carry any over to next year's cap when we have 4 major RFA's to re-sign...but if the leafs finish with $2.7m in cap space and didn't use LTIR....they will carryover just the extra $1m

6. In general...players on IR have their AAV count against the cap...but they don't count against the 23 man roster limit...so teams put players on IR so they can call someone up from the minors. Players placed on LTIR (and there's rules in the CBA that dictate the injury must be diagnosed to put the player out for 10 games or 24 days)...the team is allowed to exceed the cap ceiling essentially by the amount of the injurred player's AAV.

The CBA language is confusing...I've been pouring over it for a few years and discussing with a bunch of guys on here a lot to try and connect the dots....and the above is essentially the conclusion we've all come to adopt

Ok. It's time for me to tap out.. but I'll read on and try to figure this out.. if i can't, I'm going back to the premise that Marleau conspired with Lou to make everything ok..

To be honest with the leafs cap space I’m not sure we would get any relief so I think performance bonuses could still be paid. (I am not 100% on that though) It’s a moot point because there is no real reason to put him on ltir if you’re not getting relief.

Do you have a good source to look up specific players performance bonus structure? I have always had a hard time tracking them down (not that I don’t trust your numbers).

Yep. Gimme a sec I need to find the link for the schedule A bonuses. There’s a bunch of categories worth $212,500 each and you can earn a max of 4 of them for a total of $850k. Categories and targets differ based on FW or DEF.

Matthews’ $2m performance B bonus is based on articles from sports writers which I haven’t been able to verify, but the consensus seemed to be top 10 in ppg or Gpg were his most attainable targets.

Thanks for the explanations everyone, I can see why teams employ "cap specialists" to keep track of this.

It will be harder for Oz to hit his if he is benched the rest of the year lol.

Yes, I missed that cap space is cumulative and calculated daily, which explains why they are so diligent is sending trevor moore down on off days. I wonder if the choice to trade Leivo over Holl or Marincin also had to do with his cap hit being higher.

Haha. He’d need to turn into Paul Coffee to have a shot at it

I know i said I'd tap out, but I'm stubborn if nothing else.

Point taken on what you just stated.. I think its why I have a hard time understanding why Moore doesn't stick full time, why Kappy doesnt get pp time and other things.. as much as Babcock is chatged with lineup choices for the best resultsI think there's a constant dialouge around how lineup choices impact current and future budget constraints.

Still holding out hope, if inly for my own credibility, that Patty and Lou had a chat to make things good.. I mean, everybody that Ive ever met from Sask has been savvy.. and you don't need an accounting designation to know that

Ok...turns out my Source is the cba itself: https://cdn.nhlpa.com/img/assets/file/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

Go straight to Exhibit 5 on page 326

Perfect, thank you!!!