A 20 point defenceman would fetch 6.5 - 7 million dollars? What idiot of a GM would do that? This is just ridiculous. No one would give Pesce 7 million dollars. He's not a #1 Stud defenceman, which are the only defenceman who make that much money.

Its like me disgreeing about Pesce's value has some sort of incredible hulk effect. The angrier you get with me saying Nylander is worth more than Pesce, the larger and stronger he gets in your imagination. Soon Pesce is going to be the best defenceman every, be 14 feet tall, weigh 600 lbs and skate faster than the eye can see.

Except you cant compare. They are both judged differently. Pesce is an apple and Nylander is an orange. The apple are on sale for $4.5/kg while the oranges are pretty expensive and $7.5/kg. Mind you, for what im getting, id rather have the apples, they are more valuable.

Not everything is about points. Pesce is a DFD, however his offense has been emerging more this season. I would say hes a low-end top pairing guy or a strong 2nd pair dman with potential to grow into a stand-out top pair dman. I don't think hes the best defenseman ever but I do think he is a very good defenseman. His contract is also a steal so that makes him more valuable.

It doesn't. A trade involving Pesce would have to include McGinn or Foegele and maybe a pick if Dubas didn't pull the trigger.

Not everything is about points. Pesce is a DFD, however his offense has been emerging more this season. I would say hes a low-end top pairing guy or a strong 2nd pair dman with potential to grow into a stand-out top pair dman. I don't think hes the best defenseman ever but I do think he is a very good defenseman. His contract is also a steal so that makes him more valuable.

That's a terrible trade! One has been in the top 20 of scoring for much of his career and the other is a very good defensive defenceman.

Explain to me this rational, because it is a complete mystery to me.

Kessel for Strahlman is the trade you just mentioned.

Kessel is a player who was given close to 8 million dollars because he was an elite offensive player.

Strahlman has never earned more than 5 I believe, because he's a defensive defenceman who is worth no more than 5 million.

Why would a GM pay a guy 8 million and then trade him for a 5 million dollar player only because he plays a different position? If they are equal, why did Strahlman never make remotely close to the money as Kessel?

Now before you get all hot under the collar and start making a new post to troll me, stop and just think about this for a second.

I'll draw this out using cars and trucks, they are both automobiles but have different purposes.

I have a Corvette and you have a Ford F150.

The Corvette is fast and offensively gifted and worth 6.5 million dollars.

The Ford F150 is big strong and great at defensive stuff and worth about 4 million dollars.

Lets say for whatever reason I am discussing trading my Corvette, why would I ever trade it for the truck straight up? They are not equal?

So tell me how it makes sense that Pesce is worth more than Nylander in a trade but less when it comes to how much he should be paid?

I don't like the money argument. Players get paid based on precedents that are defined in the market. The players that are paid the most aren't by definition the most valuable players. The main driver of salary happens to be point production, which obviously is going to be greater for a scoring winger than a defensive defenseman. No GM is going to pay a shut-down guy a boatload more than his peers. This is without mentioning the fact that some GMs are dumb when they sign guys... the money isn't a reliable way to compare IMO.

Now, none of that says that a guy like Pesce is as valuable as Nylander. In fact, when I looked up the Wins Above Replacement stats, Nylander is worth much more, if you believe in that sort of "one-size-fits-all" stat.

Look nylander for peace zykov and a 3rd

Look nylander for peace zykov and a 3rd

I completely understand that we can't use salary as the definitive gauge for determining a players value, but in this case we are talking about 2 specific players and can look around the league, other salaries and pretinent stats and then decide a ball park number at which these players would should be paid under a fair contract.

For these players I think it's fair to say Pesce at around 4 million is fair, Nylander at about 6.5 is fair. If that is the case which not one person has said otherwise, then the players just aren't equal. That's the whole point and I am still waiting to hear why that simple fact gets ignored completely. Instead of anyone answering that question, they instead make posts like this to paint me as a hopeless homer who think Connor Brown is worth PK Subban or whatever the stupid trades they made were.

A Nylander for Pesce trade is like trading a young Kessel for a yound Stralman. Not good, but maybe decent.

Hmmm.... sounds suspiciously like larsson...

Pesce is better than Larsson

Except you cant compare. They are both judged differently. Pesce is an apple and Nylander is an orange. The apple are on sale for $4.5/kg while the oranges are pretty expensive and $7.5/kg. Mind you, for what im getting, id rather have the apples, they are more valuable.

On second thought and looking into Zykov some more, I am not high on him at all. He's 23 so he's not exactly a young up and coming prospect. He's just a throw in that doesn't really add much value. Its like the Leafs adding Engval to a trade, sure he's got some talent and looks like he could someday contribute a bit but he's just a depth guy that aren't that hard to find.

My take? It's something like this...

Nylander's value in two scenarios:

1st Scenario: He signed in June for 7x7m, he plays on the top line with Auston Matthews and puts up 20 pts in the first 15 games of the season. He's hitting his prime, locked up long-term, and on one of the best lines in the NHL. The GM laughs when he gets calls about trade scenarios involving Nylander.

2nd Scenario: He refuses to sign a contract, stays in Europe when training camp starts, and is 2 weeks away from sitting out an entire season. He doesn't have a contract and the speculation is that he's going to demand a Draisaitl-esque salary from any team that is interested. The GM has reportedly begun listening to offers to see what a return would consist of.

It's the same player, but can you see how the offers that would come in from other GMs would be drastically different? It has nothing to do with his on-ice value, which is extremely high. You've been spending a lot of time trying to convince people that Nylander is elite. The fact is, it doesn't matter given the context. If he's getting traded, it's not going to be a situation where TOR gets the upper hand, especially if their demand is to get an impact player that holds the same amount of value (think Nylander scenario 1 here) to his own team.

Ahl leading goal scorer last year. Should be enough of an add in

And 3 assists in 17 games so far this year, he's 23 and looks like a career Ahler.

On a 4th line that plays less than 9 minutes a game. He also plays with worse players. Put him on a line with goal scorers or play makers then he progresses

Pesce is better than Larsson

There is very little evidence that they are anything but comparable players. Both very good defensively, strong skaters and positionally sound. Also not much in the way of offense. You're arguing over which one is better at blocking shots, which players that don't have the puck tend to do more.

In your opinion...

He is a lot better

https://public.tableau.com/shared/J2JH54D55?:display_count=yes

He is a lot better

https://public.tableau.com/shared/J2JH54D55?:display_count=yes

He is a lot better

https://public.tableau.com/shared/J2JH54D55?:display_count=yes