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Discussion Between BOG And Other GMs

16 août 2017 à 18 h 50
Épinglé
V3 Canucks GM, BOG
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This thread is for discussion between the BOG members and other GMs.

You may bring up any issues relating to the GM Game in this thread.

Please try to be respectful if you are complaining about something.


BOG Members:
ricochetii
phillyjabroni
Turner33
Bo53Horvat
TonyStrecher
DarylthePony
Duster
9 sept. 2017 à 13 h 52
#351
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
I don't think we should be allowed to make RFa signings for next year already.


I agree and have already brought it up. The current RFA signings thread is only for this year, we haven't even discussed next year's RFA's yet and people are jumping the gun.
The process might not even be the same. Most RFA's aren't going to sign at their current value either. They will hope to raise their value and get a bigger contract based on their performance this season. We simply can't make a judgement on whether a signing is fair or reasonable with no data right now.
I will hold off such signings until after the trade deadline at the least, where we will develop a plan and incorporate RFA signings along with contract extensions around the same period.
The recently posted signings will of course be invalid and we'd probably have them deleted. We may even be able to close the RFA thread. I'm not sure if there are any unsigned RFA's remaining, as they were either signed or went to free agency.
9 sept. 2017 à 14 h 0
#352
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Quoting: ricochetii
Quoting: DirtyDangles
I don't think we should be allowed to make RFa signings for next year already.


I agree and have already brought it up. The current RFA signings thread is only for this year, we haven't even discussed next year's RFA's yet and people are jumping the gun.
The process might not even be the same. Most RFA's aren't going to sign at their current value either. They will hope to raise their value and get a bigger contract based on their performance this season. We simply can't make a judgement on whether a signing is fair or reasonable with no data right now.
I will hold off such signings until after the trade deadline at the least, where we will develop a plan and incorporate RFA signings along with contract extensions around the same period.
The recently posted signings will of course be invalid and we'd probably have them deleted. We may even be able to close the RFA thread. I'm not sure if there are any unsigned RFA's remaining, as they were either signed or went to free agency.


Should we notify those 3 on twitter to delete their signings?
9 sept. 2017 à 14 h 9
#353
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Quoting: Mr_cap
Quoting: ricochetii


I agree and have already brought it up. The current RFA signings thread is only for this year, we haven't even discussed next year's RFA's yet and people are jumping the gun.
The process might not even be the same. Most RFA's aren't going to sign at their current value either. They will hope to raise their value and get a bigger contract based on their performance this season. We simply can't make a judgement on whether a signing is fair or reasonable with no data right now.
I will hold off such signings until after the trade deadline at the least, where we will develop a plan and incorporate RFA signings along with contract extensions around the same period.
The recently posted signings will of course be invalid and we'd probably have them deleted. We may even be able to close the RFA thread. I'm not sure if there are any unsigned RFA's remaining, as they were either signed or went to free agency.


Should we notify those 3 on twitter to delete their signings?


No rush, BOG hasn't been on to even talk about it yet.
9 sept. 2017 à 14 h 49
#354
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IRL teams are allowed to resign an RFA as soon as July 1st the year before they're contract expires. But in this game it's probably best we wait.
9 sept. 2017 à 17 h 11
#355
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I now have my philly gm game team ready to post just tell me when and where
9 sept. 2017 à 17 h 16
#356
get ur corsi up
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Quoting: Jack_Eichel
I now have my philly gm game team ready to post just tell me when and where


Post the link in the Messages for MODS thread. And ask them to sticky it.
9 sept. 2017 à 22 h 30
#357
Démarrer sujet
V3 Canucks GM, BOG
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I would like to notify the BOG that I will be away from September 11-15 and I will be unable to be on the GM game at all.
9 sept. 2017 à 23 h 29
#358
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Quoting: TonyStrecher
I would like to notify the BOG that I will be away from September 11-15 and I will be unable to be on the GM game at all.


Noted. Best wishes Tony
9 sept. 2017 à 23 h 31
#359
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Quoting: TonyStrecher
I would like to notify the BOG that I will be away from September 11-15 and I will be unable to be on the GM game at all.


Thank you for the heads up
10 sept. 2017 à 11 h 44
#360
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C'mon now Philly. You can't make trades months in advance to get around the restriction.
Anything could happen between now and then, and the same GM's may not even be in place.
10 sept. 2017 à 11 h 47
#361
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Quoting: ricochetii
C'mon now Philly. You can't make trades months in advance to get around the restriction.
Anything could happen between now and then, and the same GM's may not even be in place.


Why can't I? It the same thing as a contingent pick trade. The deal is not yet completed until January 1st, everything else is agreed to.

I am not going to shop any of the assets that I got in return until after January 1, 2018, mainly because I don't have them

The point of the trade is to stamp on CapFriendly that both parties agreed to the deal, and that it is highly unethical to go back on
10 sept. 2017 à 11 h 47
#362
Banni
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Way to keep the integrity of the Game ahead of your own team, oh wait...
10 sept. 2017 à 11 h 52
#363
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The point of my posting the trade was to act as a time stamp.

"integrity : the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness"
- ensuring that both parties are being honest by stamping the trade
- morally not shopping any assets involved until after trade is complete
- not making any roster moves until the trade is official

Nobody called BS when teams were making expansion deals prior to the expansion draft, like weeks and months before the actual draft. The principle is the same here. Again, this is purely designed as a time stamp to ensure that parties involved are able to trace the trade back to CapFriendly
10 sept. 2017 à 11 h 56
#364
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: ricochetii
C'mon now Philly. You can't make trades months in advance to get around the restriction.
Anything could happen between now and then, and the same GM's may not even be in place.


Why can't I? It the same thing as a contingent pick trade. The deal is not yet completed until January 1st, everything else is agreed to.

I am not going to shop any of the assets that I got in return until after January 1, 2018, mainly because I don't have them

The point of the trade is to stamp on CapFriendly that both parties agreed to the deal, and that it is highly unethical to go back on


Players don't get traded based on contingency.
When conditional picks are exchanged, the trade is still made official "now" not at a future date.

You are trying to bypass the trade restrictions on UFA's by making a trade now that takes effect in the future. That's not at all the same thing.

Think about it.
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10 sept. 2017 à 11 h 56
#365
Banni
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Give me a break. The reason we were making expansion trades well before was because we were treating it as if the playoffs were over and the off season had begun.

The whole point of electing a new BoG was to put game before individual teams and you have just shown that you can't do that imo.

BoG should vote to allow/disallow that trade.
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10 sept. 2017 à 12 h 2
#366
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Quoting: ricochetii
Quoting: phillyjabroni


Why can't I? It the same thing as a contingent pick trade. The deal is not yet completed until January 1st, everything else is agreed to.

I am not going to shop any of the assets that I got in return until after January 1, 2018, mainly because I don't have them

The point of the trade is to stamp on CapFriendly that both parties agreed to the deal, and that it is highly unethical to go back on


Players don't get traded based on contingency.
When conditional picks are exchanged, the trade is still made official "now" not at a future date.

You are trying to bypass the trade restrictions on UFA's by making a trade now that takes effect in the future. That's not at all the same thing.

Think about it.


Conditional picks was a slip up on my part.

The point of the trade is to stamp it on CapFriendly, rather than the headache of Twitter. Both parties agreed to the deal, however the deal just doesn't kick in until January 1. \
Expansion draft trades are the same affect. RAIF said we couldn't make official deals yet and we didn't, we made deals that kick in at a later time (the expansion draft).

Again, I am not making any roster changes that reflect the deal until January 1, and this is a time stamp
10 sept. 2017 à 12 h 5
#367
Banni
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I'm just going to let Rico take it from here because I will just end up getting myself in trouble.
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10 sept. 2017 à 12 h 6
#368
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Give me a break. The reason we were making expansion trades well before was because we were treating it as if the playoffs were over and the off season had begun.

The whole point of electing a new BoG was to put game before individual teams and you have just shown that you can't do that imo.

BoG should vote to allow/disallow that trade.


the BOG has no say in content of trade unless it is evidently collusion (the DavidBooth Saga). I think the BOG can be able to vote on whether the trade gets stamped on CapFriendly, however, I will plea my case as to how it would be inconsistent with what was conducted prior (expansion draft)
10 sept. 2017 à 12 h 12
#369
Banni
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The only reason you are doing this is because you have nothing of value to trade now because you put all your eggs in the UFA basket. Yes u are proving that you shouldn't be on the BoG because you care about your team more than the game. Your "the BOG can't do anything about it" proves your intention to circumvent the rules.
10 sept. 2017 à 12 h 17
#370
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
The only reason you are doing this is because you have nothing of value to trade now because you put all your eggs in the UFA basket. Yes u are proving that you shouldn't be on the BoG because you care about your team more than the game. Your previous comment proves that.


I care about the game Dangles, hence why I even bothered to make the time stamp of the trade. I could have just said. I am making this trade so that it can be easily traced in case there is any issue on January 1.

I am not entirely sure what I said in the "above comment" that correlates with me not being on the BOG. "The BOG cannot revert a trade unless there is conclusive evidence of collusion (ex. DavidBooth Saga)". That is one of the rules.

"I think the BOG can vote on whether the trade gets stamped or not" - I am willingly saying that the BOG can vote on whether the trade gets stamped or not, something that you suggested.
"I will defend my case" - as would anyone.
10 sept. 2017 à 12 h 19
#371
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
The only reason you are doing this is because you have nothing of value to trade now because you put all your eggs in the UFA basket. Yes u are proving that you shouldn't be on the BoG because you care about your team more than the game. Your "the BOG can't do anything about it" proves your intention to circumvent the rules.


I am literally willingly consenting to the BOG voting on whether the trade gets stamped.
The BOG cannot overturn a trade regarding content, like the Erik Karlsson and Tyson Barrie trade. That is a rule unless there is collusion that is evident.
10 sept. 2017 à 12 h 40
#372
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If you want to make an arrangement off the books, that's one thing. What you are trying to do is make a backroom deal official and binding.
It can not be official and binding, because you are not allowed to include Shattenkirk in a trade until January.
Regardless of when it takes place, you are still posting a trade in the official trade thread that is illegal today.

Wait and post the trade after January 1st when it isn't illegal, and don't complain about it if one of the parties backs out prior to that date.

Expansion draft trades were a unique case, as we were simulating the end of the season according to our own timeline. Things were a mess back then so it's not a good precedent, but it was restricted to teams out of the playoffs at one point at least. You can't trade a player and still have him play for you.

The BOG can absolutely veto a trade if there are ineligible parts involved. We've done it multiple times with teams trading players they don't have and there is a rule preventing the trading of 2017 UFA's specifically. Nobody has said anything about the value of the trade or collusion, that's not the issue.
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10 sept. 2017 à 12 h 48
#373
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Quoting: ricochetii
If you want to make an arrangement off the books, that's one thing. What you are trying to do is make a backroom deal official and binding.
It can not be official and binding, because you are not allowed to include Shattenkirk in a trade until January.
Regardless of when it takes place, you are still posting a trade in the official trade thread that is illegal today.

Wait and post the trade after January 1st when it isn't illegal, and don't complain about it if one of the parties backs out prior to that date.

Expansion draft trades were a unique case, as we were simulating the end of the season according to our own timeline. Things were a mess back then so it's not a good precedent, but it was restricted to teams out of the playoffs at one point at least. You can't trade a player and still have him play for you.

The BOG can absolutely veto a trade if there are ineligible parts involved. We've done it multiple times with teams trading players they don't have and there is a rule preventing the trading of 2017 UFA's specifically. Nobody has said anything about the value of the trade or collusion, that's not the issue.


I never said the BOG cannot revert the trade, I am saying that we are simply stamping it in time.

My contention is that if we allowed deals to be made, that would become official at a later date, why are we know saying that it is not allowed? If you remove the context of the expansion, the same thesis is there.

Expansion Trades : deals that were made "unofficially" that would be made official at a later time.
This Trade : deals that was made "unofficially" that would be made official at a later time.

Teams were not supposed to back out on expansion deals, I would expect that Jack would't back out of this one.
I just want there to be some way to stamp the trade for future reference that is easily accessible, whether that is in the trade thread or in our descriptions, I don't really care. I just want there to be a way to stamp it on CapFriendly and not have to rifle thru Twitter to find the exact deal

edit : Jack not backing out as in the same context of the expansion trade. meaning since the thesis is constant and backing out is still unethical.
10 sept. 2017 à 13 h 4
#374
Banni
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This whole "time stamp" argument is moot. You are trying to circumvent the rules because you can't make trades due to FA.
10 sept. 2017 à 13 h 7
#375
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
This whole "time stamp" argument is moot. You are trying to circumvent the rules because you can't make trades due to FA.


If I wanted to circumvent the rules, I would have not stated that it is official on January 1 and would have made roster moves.

All I want to do is make the trade somehow stamped on CapFriendly.

I am engaged in multiple trade talks at the moment involving players that were not signed in FA.
 
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