Certainly dreaming

We aren’t giving up anywhere near that for a Marner rental

Ducks don’t want nor have any need for Marner. If they want a RW there’s plenty coming up in FA that won’t require giving up assets.

In terms of value, Zegras for Marner is probably near one for one. Anaheim won't be dealing a future RFA for a pending UFA. Assuming Marner is willing to re-sign with Anaheim, something like Zegras+Vatrano+a 4th for Marner+Cowan+Robertson is probably more in line. If both sides are viewing Zegras as a young C and Marner as a pure rental, then Zegras + a 3rd for Marner + Cowan.

Let's be honest, if Marner went to Anaheim, he wouldn't be a rental. Trading for him without a contract negotiated ahead of time makes zero sense.

So it would be assumed that Marner gets extended her.

I think take Zegras out completely , just cause TML crapped the bed overpaying players who no show after March doesnt mean ANA has to
Replace the 2nd with a prospect unless he's agreeing to a sign and trade then the 3 picks listed makes sense and add Max Jones.
That would make sense IF Marner cap matched Zegras and ANA wasnt taking on 11m.
Either way if he wanted to stay or was willing to play in ANA then be shipped to a contender of his choice at the TDL they could then make a slight profit.

If we're being honest though neither scenario seems likely.
PLD for Marner, sure but then TML is faced with making it work with PLD or buying him out later on
Really Marner for Benn makes the most sense as if DAL wins or loses i just dont think Benn gets re-signed with the depth they got , same as Marner.
Benn is older and his years of 800+ points are long gone but he's scored 50+ goals the last 2 seasons and played 31 playoff games so far with 6 goals and 19 points
Less points then Marner come playoffs but he's basically only been Division ,Conference leaders and Stanley Cup Finalist in the last 5 years as Points isnt his only contribution unlikes with Marner.


Im just saying i know Benn is worth less then Marner so it wouldnt be 1 for 1
But Benn IMO come playoffs is the piece TML need to compete at a level they simply are not.
Give them Robertson in the exchange as re-uniting brothers is something all teams like doing , its marketable.
Take back a lesser pick in the exchange and justify it you needed this boost to Leadership to help drag TML past the fabled dream of making a 2nd round and focus on Winning a Cup
Cause i think Benn, Tavares, Matthews,Nylander ,Reilly is a solve top 5 to lead but i think TML is now faced with Goaltending issues to fix to ensure their success as Samsonov is the best UFA goalie.

Plus i could see both Marner and Benn waiving their NMC in the final year before their next big contract.
Both have the chance to leave their teams better off and have their legacy in that city remembered for it , or the chance to.
For example Plekky agreed to go to TML rather then make a stink about it like Josh Gorges.
Now how he's remembered for at that time when he was winding down in MTL but declining as he aged. What he's remembered for is for giving us Kulak and by Proxy Lane Hutson
Robertson can be that for DAL and that pick could be that for TML if they draft well like MTL did


Point is there's upsides all around in DAL and TML making a deal.
Few Downsides really

ANA with a top 3 pick isnt that far out.
Levshunov is NHL Ready now and likely to fall to 3rd
IF that happens ANA is sitting pretty with good Goaltending both in the Mentor and Apprentice.
They'll have Defensive Depth again like 2015 and their forward core is pretty stacked.

Swapping Zegras for Marner being seen as an upgrade is the weird one for me.
Marner's been in a sweetheart position for years while Zegras has been trying to help lead a rebuilding team with Terry and Silvferberg
If Levushunov is gone then they get Lindstrom i believe he'll be brought to the NHL to work on Training and Conditioning with Pro's at the NHL level.
I'd have said he's NHL ready also but i dont know the updated status on his injuries right now

Either way ANA isnt making any moves like this until the draft is done

First off, Anaheim is a small-market team, so the Ducks won't be making ANY deal for Mitch Marner until after his $7.25 million bonus is paid by Toronto, so forget about any 2024 draft picks.

Second, once you get rid of Marner's huge cap hit, there's no need to send the useless Timmins along with him, and Anaheim certainly doesn't need a seventh defenseman with 7 under team control for next season already and Pat Verbeek out there beating the bushes for a right-shot high-quality defender.

Third, I agree that an Eichel-like return for Marner is fair, but Zegras has far greater value now than Alex Tuch had at the time of that trade, so I think that Zegras, Jackson LaCombe and Anaheim's 2025 first is about the limit that the Ducks will be willing to go. And given the fact that even with Marner, the Ducks will probably still be a lottery team next season makes that 2025 first look awfully valuable, so even that package might be too much for Pat Verbeek. After all, we missed the playoffs this season by TWENTY GAMES. Does anyone think that Marner alone is going to make up that difference? Especially in 2024-2025?

I really don't see the fit here.

I think you are right that no team trades for him as a rental, but it's not necessary that he would have a deal signed beforehand, he'll just have to be willing to re-sign (which if he waives he probably would be) and Verbeek would probably want to know how much he's looking for before a trade unless he's willing to sign him at whatever the cost. So, there could be a trade where they presume that he could end up being a rental so they would need protection against that which would happen by both sides adding pieces

At the TDL, Marner easily gets a 1st+2nd+3rd (with the potential of ending up with another 1st) from a contender or a 1st+2nd+3rd from a team that is out looking in. So, maybe something like the first trade I proposed. The trade is in favor of Anaheim if they re-sign Marner, because it then just becomes a trade where they are selling very high on Vatrano, but that is what should have happened for CGY in the Tkachuk trade. There could be a more even trade perhaps or one where Treliving gets the upper hand.

To be fair, Anaheim should be adding to their D via FA, and the 1st would be top-10 protected. If they end up losing a top-10 pick the following year, then they got some serious problems there. That being said, I don't think ANA is cracking top-3 in the division anytime soon, so they are likely trying to pry away a WC spot from one of LA/NSH (for example) along with teams like Minn, STL, Sea, and Uth. Still don't want to be giving up Zegras + a 11-15th OV pick +Lacombe for Marner. So, likely need a conditional 2nd instead.

I won't say Anaheim shouldn't consider getting Marner depending on the cost of acquisition and how much it costs to retain Marner. If they have to give up Zegras, anything after him shouldn't be a prime asset (save a late 1st). Zegras is a buy-low candidate but I think he's easily worth 2.5-3 1sts. I also think Marner is a buy-low candidate because there are a few loops to get by before Toronto can trade him for max value (probably paying his bonus + NMC + signing him + finding a partner that will pay up). He could still possibly fetch 4 1sts, so I would put his value at 2.5-4.

Quick , name me the last five players to get 4 first round picks in a trade.
I mean 2.5-3 was unbelievable but 4 hahahaha , i mean c'mon that dont happen
To my knowledge Wayne Gretzky's the only one a team gave up 3 first rounders ++ for .

Its 2 first rounders and a conditional that rarely works out that is a realistic ceiling but even then there is variable factors
But very very rarely does 3 first rounders happen and Gretzky himself fresh off a half dozen cups couldnt either.(and that was back when picks were traded at less value then today)
To throw around "3 and 4 first round picks" like its nothing is the only thing in your entire post i found to be Ignorant, The rest was rath insightful really.
The bigger the start the bigger the package gets for this reason as a rule cause this isnt basketball and no one gifts away four 1st round picks ever, for any reason in hockey

Marner will get 2 first rounders tops because of his Salary and thats with Double RS
Why? No teams have that kinda cap to spare that Marner would waive his NMC to
That limits the market greatly which is why TML will trade him for 1st , a 2nd or two and a player after RS 1 time and taking back a contract.
Honestly TML's easiest cop out is to target PLD and LAK 1st in 2024 and a later pick or PLD , conditional 1st in 2025 and Kaliyev deals that require 0% RS and are just done and over with ASAP.
Why? Its a team i could see him fitting into right away as they dont need him to be the Hometown Messiah just better then PLD which at MM lowest he's always been

Could he get more ? for sure if TML RS and paid someone to RS they could get more future's with lesser quality players limiting their ability to make other moves.
Or they could trade for Futures and Players who could be a great fit for TML and are young still.
But very rarely does a contender give away all their future assets for 1 player handcuffing their team from making further moves and being competitive
There's ever example since the dawn of the NHL Draft that says 3-4 NHL 1st round picks is a once in 50 years type of move and Marner nor Zegras are Gretzky

Personally, when I say the value of a 1sts, I think of a playoff teams first and whatever they would be willing to give their first up for including rentals (who may not actually be worth a 1st as a player). So, it's not really an exact value especially since I'm using the term loosely. In reality the The other thing I would say is there's really no point in looking to pre-cap era trades since the cap is a huge factor in shaping teams and in turn trades, is the cap. Also, difference in CBAs is also something to consider (contract length of players, when a player becomes an FA, revenue sharing, etc.). The whole reason Gretzky was traded was mainly for the money and not the players.

The next thing is the top players and the most valuable players are usually not available for trade, and if they move teams it's usually via free agency. These are the biggest trades that I can think of in the cap era that I would say are valued at 2+ 1sts:

2022: Tkachuk + 5th for Huberdeau + Weegar + 2025 1st + Schwindt (I would call this at least 4 1sts without actually trying to estimate but when signed CGY should have effectively gotten like 6-8 1sts in value out of Tkachuk but Huberdeau fell off.)
2022: DeBrincat for 7OV + 39 OV + a 2024 2nd (had OTT won the cup in 2024 that 2nd would have been the 64th OV which is worth a 5th RD pick than picks 25-28)
2021: Dubois+ a 3rd for Laine + Roslovic's signing rights (not sure how much these guys would have been valued back then but it's definitely something significant)
2021: Eichel + a 3rd for Tuch + Krebs + a 1st + a 2nd (3+ 1st maybe?)
2018: Karlsson+ for 2020 1st + conditional 2nd + conditional 2nd + Norris + 3 others (the guaranteed/result I would say was 2+ 1sts closer excluding the fact that they got the 3rd OV which was unexpected. Hard for me to try to put a value on this one based on time of the trade with the stipulations)
2013: Cory Schneider for 9OV (2 1sts+2nd)
2009: Kessel 2 1sts + 2nd

Got tired but there's also the O'Reilly trade, both Duchene trades, and Dougie Hamilton trade which were pretty significant deals. Could be others. Jones trade (4 "1sts"), maybe the Panarin trade. I don't expect there to be 5 guys that were traded for "4 1sts" but there are fetchmultiple players who could fethc justin the right situation, they just aren't ever available usually.

Zegras aside from having a down year and just coming off injury would return a signficiant package if he continues where he left off when he returned from injury. He still has 4-more years of team control. Marner isn't in the same situation since he doesn't have term as as any of these of course, but if he had term, then he's likely getting 3-4 1sts. More than likely the Leafs are going to get less than that but if he's dealt for other UFAs, the return could improve.