We can agree that $9.5M is too much for Jones, but at least he's a top pair RD playing 25 ATOI a night against the opponent's top competition. Krug and Faulk are bad at being 2nd pair guys. Even if you dropped Seth Jones from the trade...Hawks so no thank you

Agreed, Jones is better than both but had a down year and hasn't he come out and said he doesn't want to play on a rebuilding team. Your team gets worse, but its not like Jones is going to play well on the Blackhawks right now either. The way I see it you get some cap flexibility in a few years while staying above the floor now and get some decent draft picks. Blues swap some draft capital to shed their bad contracts and pick up a risky but better defensman.

Ill admit the retention might be much, but I think the base of the deal could make some sense for Chicago.

I’m not sure that Jones is better than Faulk. You’re wanting to make a longer term commitment to that mould of player at 1m cap higher just to rid ourselves of Krug, who also I’m not sure is much worse than Jones.

Chicago probably wouldn’t retain that much anyways and Faulk and Krug don’t really fit into what they’d be trying to accomplish.

We have larger issues and create even more problems if we take on Krug. We have Vlasic and Korchinksi as our #1 and #2 LD. So do I want to have Krug as our #3LD or do I want to bring up Ethan Del Mastro who was an AHL all-star last year and actually develop my prospects. We just can't take Krug. He's not making our team. That's my biggest issue. We'd just waive him and send him to Rockford. Even if it's not Ethan Del Mastro, we have Wyatt Kaiser that's ready for the NHL...and if it's not Kaiser it's Nolan Allan. We just can't have $6.5M in Rockford even if it's with the 10th OA pick.

***EDIT*** Well...ok I need to take that back if it was just Krug and the 10th OA absolutely because it'll just be 1 year of cap problems for us, but that's not happening.

Not that it's terribly relevant. But I would feel Krug would be a pretty good bridge for Korchinski to jump into a bigger role while not putting him in way over his head.

Can you do it a different way? Sure, but you're still putting the weight of the PP on him without any buffer. As frustrating as Krug has been to us, that doesn't mean he's not an NHL player. He's frustrating to us because we also have 3-4 other guys who aren't capable of handling defensive minutes. He's ideally suited for the 3rd pair LD spot at 5v5, but he also needs to run a PP to be a positive influence on the team

The hard part about bridge is that takes away the ice time for KK. They're tossing him in the deep end and he did well last year. Much better the 2nd half than the 1st. We want to continue to keep him with Murphy because KK isn't over his head. He's a rookie learning.

I mean what do you quantify as did well? I know I haven't watched many Hawks games at all. But personally if we had a guy like that I wouldn't want to put him in a situation long-term or repeatedly where you're searching for morale victories and not good results. Teaching moments are great, but how long are teaching moments going to be a thing, and how big of teaching moments are they if there aren't repercussions that come with the mistakes.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just trying to give a different side and where having a buffer is a beneficial thing

Its a very fair conversation to have. It's why I want to keep him with the same DPair/Murphy. I don't want to mix him around and complicate things. The less changes and more ice time he can get, the better he can focus on different aspect of his game that need developing. There is no substitution for NHL ice time.
His outlet passing and mobility are there. I'm not worried about that. It's the defensive side of his game. Both defensive against the rush and in his own zone. I hope he and Murphy stick near each other for much of the offseason. Continue to develop off ice chemistry, but they should be a DPair for at least the next 2 years.

Trying to think of someone that would be a good fill in there to help bridge that gap for him. I think the addition of veteran players who are impactful players is often overlooked on complete teardown teams. I actually like (Well like is a strong word for the Hawks) that they brought in guys like Foligno, and Hall to play important roles on the team. I think we often and sometimes teams (Buffalo, etc) get too focused on one of these guys with a high pedigree will hit and transcend this team. But when you get stuck in a rut of losing over and over again it's very easy to become complacent and not necessarily lose that edge that got you there, but be numb to losing almost. One good thing about Krug is he's always had a fire about him, but that fire can't overlook his physical deficiencies. They almost would be best suited bringing in a guy like Alec Martinez to jump up and down the lineup. Leddy would be another good option. Guys that have consistently been around winning but if you limit their ice time knowing where you're at it's not going to have a large hamper on the team.

I would absolutely love if they signed Demelo. We have a Godzilla amount of cap space/cash the next two years. Below is a link to a team I created earlier today because I think you're 100% correct. We need to find veterans that play a role. We need a RD and another veteran center imo. Wouldn't hurt for another vet winger either. That extra Vet winger can allow for injury or potential trade of a pending UFA. I'd pay Demelo basically anything he's asking for as long as it's a shorter term deal. Getting the RIGHT guy is crucial and money is secondary. No one on the LD though. Were way to heavy there.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/5110188

I think the issue with a guy like DeMelo is he hasn't won anything and he's still in a position where alot of competitive teams will come calling and be bidding on his services. I think what it would take for the Hawks would be a guy that's either declined to the point where you don't love their contract but they're a very good pro who is still servicable. Or a guy on the twilight of their career who it's hard to get another contract for and they'd have to overpay a bit (Foligno, Perry) on the defensive side. I just don't see the allure for a guy like Tanev or Demelo who have a short window left to maximize what they're doing for their own prestige to come to Chicago currently. I think that changes in 3-4 years once the core starts to firmly implement themselves as productive regulars.

It all depends. He's made ~$16M in his career so far. I'm willing to increase my offer to $8M per season. Money talks, but not everyone will bite. We'll see for sure. Player development is absolutely crucial for any team in the stage the Hawks are in because of exactly what you were talking about. We need to pay up big time, but the term needs to meet our needs.

Justin Holl may be another good option, just looking around as i'm curious to what the defensive market may look like and i'm procrastinating heavy at work. Guess you could throw Ceci in there too. Not sure if those two have the winning pedigree though.

Holl??? Bruh.

There's no discussion to be had here, the Blues and Hawks don't trade and that's before we even get to the NTCs.

That comment wasn't directed towards a Blues trade. You'll have to read the whole thread to understand where that was at.

Just so you know, I have read the entire thread.

Even if the Hawks were willing to retain on Jones, this deal dies w/ the addition of Krug. The only spots the Hawks have for him would be 3rd pair RD (for a guy who has never played meaningful minutes on his off side) or as the highly paid (and probably disgruntled) 7th D. And even when he does play, Krug isn't getting PP time ahead of Faulk or Korchinski, so that takes away a big chunk of his usefulness. Hawks likely have to turn around and try to flip Krug w/ retention to a team that needs a PP QB (few if any) or keep him for a season and buy him out. In my opinion, Jones w/ the retention for the two picks and Faulk has some legs. If Krug is included, the retention on Jones definitely goes away at a minimum. Possibly that '24 2nd becomes another 1st. That's how much the Hawks don't want to deal w/ Krug.