honest truth about fixing team

LISTE DE RÉSERVE	ANS	CAP HIT
Yager, Brayden	3	950 000 $
Murashov, Sergei	3	950 000 $
Lucius, Cruz	3	950 000 $

RFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Bemström, Emil	2	950 000 $
Poulin, Samuel	2	950 000 $
St. Ivany, Jack	2	900 000 $

UFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Chatfield, Jalen	2	1 750 000 $
Gustafsson, Erik	2	1 500 000 $

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
23	87 500 000 $	81 891 009 $	0 $	57 500 $	5 608 991 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
O'Connor, Drew 925 000 $925 000 $ AG UFA - 1	Crosby, Sidney 8 700 000 $8 700 000 $ C NMC UFA - 1	Rust, Bryan 5 125 000 $5 125 000 $ AD, AG NMC UFA - 4
Malkin, Evgeni 6 100 000 $6 100 000 $ C NMC UFA - 2	Yager, Brayden 950 000 $950 000 $ C, AG, AD RFA	Rakell, Rickard 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ AD, AG M-NTC UFA - 4
Bunting, Michael 4 500 000 $4 500 000 $ AG M-NTC UFA - 2	Broz, Tristan 925 000 $925 000 $ C RFA - 3	Smith, Reilly 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ AG, AD M-NTC UFA - 1
Poulin, Samuel 950 000 $950 000 $ C, AG RFA - 2	Eller, Lars 2 450 000 $2 450 000 $ C UFA - 1	Acciari, Noel 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ C, AD M-NTC UFA - 2
Bemström, Emil 950 000 $950 000 $ AD, AG RFA		Puljujärvi, Jesse 800 000 $800 000 $ AD UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Pettersson, Marcus 4 025 175 $4 025 175 $ DG M-NTC UFA - 1	Karlsson, Erik 10 000 000 $10 000 000 $ DD NMC UFA - 3	Jarry, Tristan 5 375 000 $5 375 000 $ G M-NTC UFA - 4
Graves, Ryan 4 500 000 $4 500 000 $ DG M-NTC UFA - 5	Letang, Kris 6 100 000 $6 100 000 $ DD NMC UFA - 4	Blomqvist, Joel 886 667 $886 667 $ (57 500 $$58K) G RFA - 2
Gustafsson, Erik 1 500 000 $1 500 000 $ DG UFA	Chatfield, Jalen 1 750 000 $1 750 000 $ DD UFA
	St. Ivany, Jack 900 000 $900 000 $ DD RFA

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
		Nieto, Matt 900 000 $900 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1

24 avr. à 19 h 45

#1

Rejoint: nov. 2021

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Brayden Yager probably won’t be NHL ready this year and definitely won’t be 2LC ready, it’s more likely Eller would move up if Malkin struggles, I do like that third pairing

24 avr. à 19 h 59

#2

LuckyMoneyPuck

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Quoting: Pensfan03eee

Brayden Yager probably won’t be NHL ready this year and definitely won’t be 2LC ready, it’s more likely Eller would move up if Malkin struggles, I do like that third pairing

Eller is in no better position to be a 2C than Malkin is as he's old as dirt as well.
This is why I put Yager there. He's the only one young enough with the talent to be there. I'm not claiming there won't be growing pains there, but I know you shouldn't count on production out of the 2nd line if Malkin is going to stay at center.
Center is the hardest forward position to play, you have to cover a lot of space and you are responsible for driving the attack up ice down the middle. It takes legs to do that. He don't have them.

24 avr. à 21 h 8

#3

BestGMBenning

Rejoint: oct. 2021

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This team can work I think. Of course still needs some work but I’m honestly hoping Jake does return. I don’t see why they don’t end up taking a run at bringing him back. At the same time I want to see how much more damage DOC can do with more ice time because he really made the most of playing with Sid the last month of hockey for us. At the same time I feel like we can rely on him to play on the third line with Eller and Puustinen. Also I do really think the best outcome for Smith is for him to be moved. He brings creativity but he also just didn’t really seem to bring a lot of heart in to every game. Our bottom 6 has a lot of potential. The third line I wouldn’t make much changes for as long as we have Eller centering the third line. The 4th line is good defensively but not offensively which is what should change.
Our blueline 100% needs to be addressed and lineup changes. I think to get the best Erik Karlsson is for him to become our true number 1 dman with Pettersson as his partner. As for Letang he’ll get a reduced role but still play a big part in the lineup. Graves I believe can still be a solid defencemen, just may need to stick on the third pairing for a full-season till we know he can take on bigger minutes again. Basically what Sully did with Pettersson. It’ll be hard to find a partner for Letang on the 1st/2nd pair but it can be done. Third pairing can become really good depending on the plans.
I think coaching does need to be addressed. I love Sully and wouldn’t be mad if he remains our coach moving forward. But something needs to happen to give this team a jolt. If Sully remains I’d at least want to see a whole new staff behind him.

25 avr. à 9 h 8

#4

Hynzy57

Rejoint: juin 2023

Messages: 84

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I agree with most of your takes. Malkin to wing and go find a 2C in FA. I like Monahan, Stephenson, Wennberg in that position over Yager/Eller. The 3rd pairing D is solid. I think Accarai should stay and see what he can do without Harkens/Carter anchors weighing him down.

For Smith, I would love to see them somehow move him out and go after Duclair with that money. Ive been a big fan of the idea of Duclair on this team, fast and has hands. Although I think he will be his highest price this summer.

25 avr. à 11 h 51

#5

LuckyMoneyPuck

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Quoting: Hynzy57

I agree with most of your takes. Malkin to wing and go find a 2C in FA. I like Monahan, Stephenson, Wennberg in that position over Yager/Eller. The 3rd pairing D is solid. I think Accarai should stay and see what he can do without Harkens/Carter anchors weighing him down.

For Smith, I would love to see them somehow move him out and go after Duclair with that money. Ive been a big fan of the idea of Duclair on this team, fast and has hands. Although I think he will be his highest price this summer.

I get what you are saying here. but if you spend that money now you're not going to get a chance at the type of player they need.
If we are going to spend 10+ mil on a guy or a collection of guys, we should target Draisaitl in FA next year.
I know that might sound crazy but they need a guy who can drive play and none of the guys listed above are going to do that.

25 avr. à 12 h 16

#6

JSEB93

Rejoint: mai 2022

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Modifié 25 avr. à 12 h 22

Not that the roster is bad - but the philosophy is a bit confusing to me. Malkin did prove that he is still a 2C. He's also proven that he's still an elite playmaker, but his goal scoring has dropped off a bit. And Yagers best aspect is arguably his shot. So it seems a bit backwards to ask them both to play to the opposite of their strengths as opposed to playing to them. 2C is also a lot of responsibility and a big role for a guy who might not even make the roster at this point.

"For a long time it's always been the "wingers" fault for no production on the 2nd line". We only have to look one season into the past for this not to be the case - the 2nd line produced well with Zuker and Rust/Rakell. And underperforming wingers did hurt the 2nd line this year - I hope you aren't trying to put the blame on Malkinas opposed to Smith and Rakell underperforming. And 2 seasons ago Malkin was playing with Heinen and Kapanen haha. Sometimes the blame is put correctly on the people that deserve it.

Overall I think it's a solid team though - I like the idea of going for depth. There's probably room to make it even better with that extra cap space. Maybe on a 2LD and bump Graves down? Or go after Stephenson/Monahan to strengthen the center group? Just spitballing

25 avr. à 12 h 39

#7

LuckyMoneyPuck

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Quoting: JSEB93

Not that the roster is bad - but the philosophy is a bit confusing to me. Malkin did prove that he is still a 2C. He's also proven that he's still an elite playmaker, but his goal scoring has dropped off a bit. And Yagers best aspect is arguably his shot. So it seems a bit backwards to ask them both to play to the opposite of their strengths as opposed to playing to them. 2C is also a lot of responsibility and a big role for a guy who might not even make the roster at this point.

"For a long time it's always been the "wingers" fault for no production on the 2nd line". We only have to look one season into the past for this not to be the case - the 2nd line produced well with Zuker and Rust/Rakell. And underperforming wingers did hurt the 2nd line this year - I hope you aren't trying to put the blame on Malkinas opposed to Smith and Rakell underperforming. And 2 seasons ago Malkin was playing with Heinen and Kapanen haha. Sometimes the blame is put correctly on the people that deserve it.

Overall I think it's a solid team though - I like the idea of going for depth. There's probably room to make it even better with that extra cap space. Maybe on a 2LD and bump Graves down? Or go after Stephenson/Monahan to strengthen the center group? Just spitballing

if you have been watching Malkin play you know he's slown down. He just doesn't have the legs to play center ice. You have to cover a lot of ground in the center as opposed to wing, and he doesn't have the legs or speed anymore to do that. It's the biggest factor causing problems for the penguins 2nd line.
So as much as you want to say, Yagers biggest asset is his shot, the truth is his biggest asset at this point is his legs. As the penguins don't have anyone capable of filling that spot, nor can they find someone capable of doing it in FA this year.

If you don't have a center capable of causing disruption everything else falls apart on a line. That is why the best players are always moved to center starting as kids. More is asked of them, and more is expected. But when you are 37 years old trying to keep up with guys who are getting younger and younger on the other side at some point you have to realize you don't belong there anymore.
Look at Pavelski in DAL, he has shifted over to wing some time ago. He's the exact comparable.
At some point you have to take the responsibility off an older player to make them impactful still. Make his ice defense responsibility smaller, and give him more ability to set up and score.

While we all wish Malkin could play center to 40 that's just not realistic, and you are seeing the impacts of this year after year. His defense has fallen off for the past several years. When he was younger he wasn't so bad defensively. The reason it shows more and more now is because he doesn't have the legs. Not because his style has changed. It's been impacting his offense the last few years as well. The 2nd line isn't the threat it use to be. Malkin use to be a guy capable of carrying a player. He's not anymore. He's the guy that needs support to make it work now.
I don't know how many signs you need to see to realize the decline and why a shift should be made. He's 38. Not 28. The team will get more out of him and perform better by changing his responsibility to a more limited role, while still giving him the ice time because he's a better offensive asset than what they have.

Fact is you need legs to be a playmaker, the other team needs to worry that you will be disruptive and collapse on you. That's not the case anymore with Malkin. Which is why Yager is the best option there currently. While I get wanting to spend to cap, they should go after Draisaitl next year with all that cap money and get a real 2C. Instead of constantly believing in 1 year fixes are going to save the team.

25 avr. à 12 h 48

#8

Hynzy57

Rejoint: juin 2023

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Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck

I get what you are saying here. but if you spend that money now you're not going to get a chance at the type of player they need.
If we are going to spend 10+ mil on a guy or a collection of guys, we should target Draisaitl in FA next year.
I know that might sound crazy but they need a guy who can drive play and none of the guys listed above are going to do that.

How much do you think Drai gets if he hits the free market?

25 avr. à 12 h 55

#9

LuckyMoneyPuck

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Quoting: Hynzy57

How much do you think Drai gets if he hits the free market?

13 range is my guess.

25 avr. à 12 h 58

#10

JSEB93

Rejoint: mai 2022

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Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck

if you have been watching Malkin play you know he's slown down. He just doesn't have the legs to play center ice. You have to cover a lot of ground in the center as opposed to wing, and he doesn't have the legs or speed anymore to do that. It's the biggest factor causing problems for the penguins 2nd line.
So as much as you want to say, Yagers biggest asset is his shot, the truth is his biggest asset at this point is his legs. As the penguins don't have anyone capable of filling that spot, nor can they find someone capable of doing it in FA this year.

If you don't have a center capable of causing disruption everything else falls apart on a line. That is why the best players are always moved to center starting as kids. More is asked of them, and more is expected. But when you are 37 years old trying to keep up with guys who are getting younger and younger on the other side at some point you have to realize you don't belong there anymore.
Look at Pavelski in DAL, he has shifted over to wing some time ago. He's the exact comparable.
At some point you have to take the responsibility off an older player to make them impactful still. Make his ice defense responsibility smaller, and give him more ability to set up and score.

While we all wish Malkin could play center to 40 that's just not realistic, and you are seeing the impacts of this year after year. His defense has fallen off for the past several years. When he was younger he wasn't so bad defensively. The reason it shows more and more now is because he doesn't have the legs. Not because his style has changed. It's been impacting his offense the last few years as well. The 2nd line isn't the threat it use to be. Malkin use to be a guy capable of carrying a player. He's not anymore. He's the guy that needs support to make it work now.
I don't know how many signs you need to see to realize the decline and why a shift should be made. He's 38. Not 28. The team will get more out of him and perform better by changing his responsibility to a more limited role, while still giving him the ice time because he's a better offensive asset than what they have.

Fact is you need legs to be a playmaker, the other team needs to worry that you will be disruptive and collapse on you. That's not the case anymore with Malkin. Which is why Yager is the best option there currently. While I get wanting to spend to cap, they should go after Draisaitl next year with all that cap money and get a real 2C. Instead of constantly believing in 1 year fixes are going to save the team.

Yes - I've been watching. Yes - hes slown down - just like any other 38 year old. But if you've been watching then you'd clearly see he still has the legs to play center. This was his best defensive season in years. I mean, he clearly does still have enough speed though. The biggest problem for the Pens 2nd line was Smith and Rakell underperforming. Not Malkin's speed. Yes - Yager's biggest asset is his shot - and Malkins is his playmaking ability. They literally do have someone capable of filling that spot though. And could find someone if they wanted to.

Sure - but having Yager set up Malkin to score means you are playing to the opposite of their strengths. That's all I'm pointing out.

What impacts? And again - Malkin actually had a solid defensive season. His best in years. So it's not really showing more now. Just because Malkin isn't as good as he was in 09-10 isn't a reason to move him to wing for Yager though. Yes - he needs support, good wingers would qualify as support..

Malkin is a playmaker. That's proven. So you're either saying he has legs, or lying about needing them to be a playmaker. It's one of the two. Yes, it is the case. How is Yager the best option? They have a real 2C. I mean we'd all love Draisaitl, but that's clearly a bit of a pipe dream. Not sure I would base next year's roster construction around trying to get Draisaitl the following season. Again - I don't think this is a bad team by any means, just the Yager 2C and the logic behind it is confusing me a bit. And leaving some cap space available. Those are my only two points of contention. But I appreciate your explanation

25 avr. à 13 h 18

#11

LuckyMoneyPuck

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Quoting: JSEB93

Yes - I've been watching. Yes - hes slown down - just like any other 38 year old. But if you've been watching then you'd clearly see he still has the legs to play center. This was his best defensive season in years. I mean, he clearly does still have enough speed though. The biggest problem for the Pens 2nd line was Smith and Rakell underperforming. Not Malkin's speed. Yes - Yager's biggest asset is his shot - and Malkins is his playmaking ability. They literally do have someone capable of filling that spot though. And could find someone if they wanted to.

Sure - but having Yager set up Malkin to score means you are playing to the opposite of their strengths. That's all I'm pointing out.

What impacts? And again - Malkin actually had a solid defensive season. His best in years. So it's not really showing more now. Just because Malkin isn't as good as he was in 09-10 isn't a reason to move him to wing for Yager though. Yes - he needs support, good wingers would qualify as support..

Malkin is a playmaker. That's proven. So you're either saying he has legs, or lying about needing them to be a playmaker. It's one of the two. Yes, it is the case. How is Yager the best option? They have a real 2C. I mean we'd all love Draisaitl, but that's clearly a it of a pipe dream. Not sure I would base next year's roster construction around trying to get Draisaitl the following season. Again - I don't think this is a bad team, just the Yager 2C and the logic behind it is confusing me a bit.

Malkin does not have the foot speed to keep playing center.
If you actually think that we are just going to have to disagree.
Again, this is not the guy he use to be.
If what you want is a league average 2C out of the guy, then persist. If you want to keep getting an impact player out of him, move to wing.
I know people attach to players and have a hard time seeing it. But at some point you have to face facts.
He doesn't play the way he use to and teams don't play him the way they use to. He's not the threat at center ice anymore. Moving him to wing can change that.
It's an issue that's only going to get worse not better. Why leave a guy out there when you see it happening just for him to get exposed.
Time to give less responsibility. This will let him create more of an impact. The less he has to worry about defensively the more he can contribute offensively.
Malkin hasn't fallen off the cliff yet, but you can clearly see the wheels are coming undone. He's gone from a franchise level guy to a 2C. You can choose to patch it up and get the most out of it, or you can let it fall apart and then be in crisis mode. You got an aging guy who can still have a big impact, but you have to help him by reducing the expectatoins.

As far as the Draisaitl signing. You never know. He's not signed. You would think he would be soon. That depends on what the player wants.
As far as I'm concerned if the team is going to spend cap, that's the guy they should give it to. Not hand over 9-10 million to Jake.
If they are going to swing, swing big. Get what the team really needs. Speed down the center.

25 avr. à 13 h 29

#12

JSEB93

Rejoint: mai 2022

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Modifié 25 avr. à 13 h 46

Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck

Malkin does not have the foot speed to keep playing center.
If you actually think that we are just going to have to disagree.
Again, this is not the guy he use to be.
If what you want is a league average 2C out of the guy, then persist. If you want to keep getting an impact player out of him, move to wing.
I know people attach to players and have a hard time seeing it. But at some point you have to face facts.
He doesn't play the way he use to and teams don't play him the way they use to. He's not the threat at center ice anymore. Moving him to wing can change that.
It's an issue that's only going to get worse not better. Why leave a guy out there when you see it happening just for him to get exposed.
Time to give less responsibility. This will let him create more of an impact. The less he has to worry about defensively the more he can contribute offensively.
Malkin hasn't fallen off the cliff yet, but you can clearly see the wheels are coming undone. He's gone from a franchise level guy to a 2C. You can choose to patch it up and get the most out of it, or you can let it fall apart and then be in crisis mode. You got an aging guy who can still have a big impact, but you have to help him by reducing the expectatoins.

As far as the Draisaitl signing. You never know. He's not signed. You would think he would be soon. That depends on what the player wants.
As far as I'm concerned if the team is going to spend cap, that's the guy they should give it to. Not hand over 9-10 million to Jake.
If they are going to swing, swing big. Get what the team really needs. Speed down the center.

I'll try to keep this short.

Malkin can clearly still play center. He's obviously still better than a league average 2C. He's still an impact player at C. This has nothing to do with me being attached to a player - it has to do with me facing the facts. Nobody is saying he's as good as he was 10 years ago - yes he's not the player he used to be. There's no guarantee having a guy change positions after 20 years will somehow magically make him significantly better. What is happening - where is he exposed?

If you want less responsibility - you can also give him good wingers. If you really want to move him to wing, you could also give him a good center.

Malkin had a good season, not sure where the negativity is coming from. How is Yager considered patching it up? And again, my main point of contention was just the logic of having Malkin and Yager not play to their strengths.

Okay sure.... but we do kinda know. That's like saying you never know Sid might go sign with Colorado.

25 avr. à 13 h 45

#13

LuckyMoneyPuck

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Quoting: JSEB93

I mean, you cant really state that as if it's a fact though - because the season we just watched doesn't prove that. So yes - we will have to disagree. Nobody is arguing that he's the same guy he was 10 years ago - but I fail to see how that's a point?

He's clearly better than a league average 2C though. And you can't really use league average 2C as a negative point when you're replacement is a guy coming from the WHL. This has nothing to do with me being attached to a player - this has to do with me actually dealing with and facing facts.

Again, no argument that he isn't as good as he was 10 years ago - but I fail to see where that's a point? If you were replacing him with an upgrade, like Draisaitl, then obviously yes - but you're not.

See what happening? Where is he being exposed?

Sure if you wan to give him less responsibility then give him better wingers or sign a good center. Plus, again, I don't care if you have Yager at 2C(okay I do a little haha). My point was just the flawed logic of not playing towards their strengths regarding playmaking and scoring.

Malkin had a good season, not sure where this negativity is coming from. Yes - he's not the player he was 10 years ago - nobody is arguing he is. Okay - but I don't consider putting a WHL player at 2C as really patching it up. Yes - I agree, reduced expectations would be great. So surround him with good wingers or a good center if you're moving him to wing.

Sure, but you could also say that about someone like Sid. You never know, he may just go sign in Colorado. But we kinda do know. Okay, but then when he doesn't sign here what do you do? And you've held on to 6mil that could have been spent this offseason?

You keep focusing on Yager.... that has nothing to do with the judgement to move Malkin to wing.
I clearly get your concern there. I clearly realize Yager could not end up holding up that position. Which is why you see me saying they should go after Drai the next year.

But all of that has nothing to do with a putting a slowing Malkin on the wing.
It is object that Malkin is slowing. He's not a fast player on the ice anymore. Anyone watching knows this.
You keep saying he had a good year. I'm not sure how we can agree on that when the 2nd line was non existent for large stretches. That's the 2Cs job to make it relevant.
So when it disappears for months on end, and the guy who's suppose to drive it has disappeared, that's not a good year.
As I said above, you either recognize he's slowed down and does not have the foot speed he use to have or you don't.
I don't know how many years it takes for you to realize it. Maybe by mid point this up coming season you'll begin to realize it more. Some times people don't want to see something till it's pointed out. Then they see it.
But either way, Malkin is not a player who plays with Pace anymore, and because of that he doesn't drive a line and cause disruption making an impact like he use to.
It's ok, he's 38. It was bound to happen some time. Lets not make the mistake of not seeing it and get the most out of the next 2 years.
Instead of focusing on Yager as the excuse for not wanting to see it. Regardless of who goes to 2C, it's the best move for both the team and Malkin's production to move him over to LW.
It's better to have a really impactful winger than it is a average 2C. DAL realized that with JoePa. PIT needs to realize that with Malkin.

25 avr. à 13 h 54

#14

JSEB93

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Modifié 25 avr. à 14 h 6

Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck

You keep focusing on Yager.... that has nothing to do with the judgement to move Malkin to wing.
I clearly get your concern there. I clearly realize Yager could not end up holding up that position. Which is why you see me saying they should go after Drai the next year.

But all of that has nothing to do with a putting a slowing Malkin on the wing.
It is object that Malkin is slowing. He's not a fast player on the ice anymore. Anyone watching knows this.
You keep saying he had a good year. I'm not sure how we can agree on that when the 2nd line was non existent for large stretches. That's the 2Cs job to make it relevant.
So when it disappears for months on end, and the guy who's suppose to drive it has disappeared, that's not a good year.
As I said above, you either recognize he's slowed down and does not have the foot speed he use to have or you don't.
I don't know how many years it takes for you to realize it. Maybe by mid point this up coming season you'll begin to realize it more. Some times people don't want to see something till it's pointed out. Then they see it.
But either way, Malkin is not a player who plays with Pace anymore, and because of that he doesn't drive a line and cause disruption making an impact like he use to.
It's ok, he's 38. It was bound to happen some time. Lets not make the mistake of not seeing it and get the most out of the next 2 years.
Instead of focusing on Yager as the excuse for not wanting to see it. Regardless of who goes to 2C, it's the best move for both the team and Malkin's production to move him over to LW.
It's better to have a really impactful winger than it is a average 2C. DAL realized that with JoePa. PIT needs to realize that with Malkin.

I'm not focusing on Yager though. I'm directly responding to the things you say, which is actually Malkin focused. And I recognize Yager could do well there - again, my point was just the logic of making Malkin the scorer and Yager the playmaker. It goes against their strengths.

Yes, Malkin is slower. Nobody is arguing otherwise. Yes - I'm saying Malkin had a good year because he did, in fact, have a good year. The 2nd line struggled due to bad winger play, not Malkin. I mean, that's just not correct. He had a good year.

As I've said multiple times, I recognize he is slower and not as good as he used to be. So I don't understand why you're acting like I've said otherwise? But just because he doesn't do something "like he used to" doesn't mean he's not playing well or needs to move positions. If there was some immediate upgrade or a good 2C available, then yes, I'd be all for it. He's not just an average 2C though. And center is a more important position. There's also no guarantee that he becomes a very impactful winger. I'm not at all against moving Malkin to wing, I think it's a perfectly fine idea. I am for whatever makes the team the best - and that very well could. It's worked for other players/teams. Either way man - I think we both want what's best for the team. Have a good one - enjoy the upcoming weekend!

25 avr. à 14 h 20

#15

LuckyMoneyPuck

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SkateOrDie

Rejoint: févr. 2024

Messages: 2,418

Mentions "j'aime": 396

Quoting: JSEB93

I'm not focusing on Yager though. I'm directly responding to the things you say, which is actually Malkin focused. And I recognize Yager could do well there - again, my point was just the logic of making Malkin the scorer and Yager the playmaker. It goes against their strengths.

Yes, Malkin is slower. Nobody is arguing otherwise. Yes - I'm saying Malkin had a good year because he did, in fact, have a good year. The 2nd line struggled due to bad winger play, not Malkin. I mean, that's just not correct. He had a good year.

As I've said multiple times, I recognize he is slower and not as good as he used to be. So I don't understand why you're acting like I've said otherwise? He's not just an average 2C though. And center is a more important position. There's also no guarantee that he becomes a very impactful winger.

Yager had over an assist per game this year. To say he's not a playmaker just isn't true. He's a complete center, he'll find the open guy.
Malkin has always been a better goal scorer than playmaker, they have constantly had to tell him to shoot the puck more. He's at his best when he's doing that.

Look the job of the center is to open up the ice for other guys, it's the wingers job to then find the space and get open. You want to say the wingers struggle... we'll wingers have been struggling for some time on his wing not just this year. It's not like Zucker didn't have his struggles there and people before him. Sometimes it's not just the winger. You need to have that speed to open up the ice and make guys collapse on you. To pull the defense toward you. A really good center has the ability to open that ice up and help those wingers out.
The point is, no one does that with Malkin anymore because they know he's not fast enough to get away. He's just not a danger anymore like that.
They need a faster, slicker player there now. Be it Yager or someone else. If you don't have to collapse on a guy it means there is less space for everyone else making it harder on them to produce.
That's why Crosby is still very effective, he draws 2-3 guys to him, and he finds the open guy. Malkin can't do that anymore. He does not draw 2-3 guys on him, they 1 on 1 him and he is struggling to win that battle. Which is why they continue to do it. If he was winning those he'd draw more guys.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. Because you can't say you realize he's slowing down, and not realize when the one who drives the line slows down to average player speed, the rest of the line is effected.

25 avr. à 14 h 29

#16

JSEB93

Rejoint: mai 2022

Messages: 3,398

Mentions "j'aime": 1,019

Modifié 25 avr. à 15 h 16

Quoting: LuckyMoneyPuck

Yager had over an assist per game this year. To say he's not a playmaker just isn't true. He's a complete center, he'll find the open guy.
Malkin has always been a better goal scorer than playmaker, they have constantly had to tell him to shoot the puck more. He's at his best when he's doing that.

Look the job of the center is to open up the ice for other guys, it's the wingers job to then find the space and get open. You want to say the wingers struggle... we'll wingers have been struggling for some time on his wing not just this year. It's not like Zucker didn't have his struggles there and people before him. Sometimes it's not just the winger. You need to have that speed to open up the ice and make guys collapse on you. To pull the defense toward you. A really good center has the ability to open that ice up and help those wingers out.
The point is, no one does that with Malkin anymore because they know he's not fast enough to get away. He's just not a danger anymore like that.
They need a faster, slicker player there now. Be it Yager or someone else. If you don't have to collapse on a guy it means there is less space for everyone else making it harder on them to produce.
That's why Crosby is still very effective, he draws 2-3 guys to him, and he finds the open guy. Malkin can't do that anymore. He does not draw 2-3 guys on him, they 1 on 1 him and he is struggling to win that battle. Which is why they continue to do it. If he was winning those he'd draw more guys.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. Because you can't say you realize he's slowing down, and not realize when the one who drives the line slows down to average player speed, the rest of the line is effected.

He did, but don't forget that's the WHL. It's not that he can't make plays, I'm not saying that - it's that everyone knows Yager's biggest asset is his shot. Which is perfect, because Malkins is his playmaking ability, passing, and chance creation. They are actually a good combo that would benefit each other, but just the opposite of the way you said imo. Which is all I was saying. I'm not adamantly against Malkin moving to wing at all, or even Yager playing C.

Yes - I want to say that his wingers were bad this year because they were. How have they been struggling for some time? Zucker had a great year last year. Heinen had a career year with Malkin the year before and Kapanen had a career year with Malkin the year before that. It's not Malkin's fault for poor winger play this year. Or prior years for that matter.

And if he was as bad as you're implying he wouldn't have had as good of a season as he did.

Yeah, I guess we will. Because it's pretty obvious that Malkin had a good season and his wingers (Rakell and Smith) underperformed. Acting like Malkin dragged them down or was the cause of their issues just isn't reality. But either way - always enjoy the discussions. Sorry for coming in hot - bad week at work haha. Take care man

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