Even you have to have Rielly in the top 10 over Ekholm and Forsling...

Rielly has more points than both, in less games played, playing 24 minutes a night on a consistent basis

Also swap Nylander and Marner... From a Leafs fan, Reinhart's been better than both but 16 has been way worse than 88 this year

Based on this season or in general?

Matheson low key has a case for the LD list. Although he wouldn't be high on the top 10, I think he is in the conversation. Obviously his offensive game outweighs his defensive prowess, but he was top 10 in defensive scoring this year and he's honestly been really good for the Habs.

Barzal over pav

Forsling and Ekholm are both elite defensively while being able to put up 40-45 points. Both super underrated imo

If it was only based on this year I’d probably have Nylander above Marner but I’m also taking past play into consideration

More in general but also a decent amount of emphasis on this season

I was only using players from playoff teams here

Was putting players where CF had their primary positions listed and Barzal’s was C. If his was RW he’d probably be just above Fiala

Lindholm has under 30 points... And Rielly has 14 more points than Ekholm in 9 less games after his playoffs in 22-23

Forsling's also under 40 points...

Rielly's better than all 3 for sure...

5th in on ice average for defensemen at even strength, only player eligible for this list that's higher than him is Morrissey

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl-average-even-strength-time-on-ice-leaders

Lindholm did also put up 53 points last season while finishing 4th in Norris voting. But I’m also taking more than just their offense into account. All 3 of those guys are also very good defensively while Rielly is bad defensively. The gap between them and Rielly offensively is smaller than the gap between them and Rielly defensively

You can argue Rielly (or Hanifin) over Forsling or Lindholm but I’m taking those Lindholm and Forsling personally

Then why is Rielly more relied on then any of those guys and Toronto still has 100+ points and is a playoff team?

Especially at even strength... Rielly's production at EV is the same as Adam Fox (38 points in 72 games) while playing more and getting harder minutes... (20:38 minutes a night at EV, 5th in the NHL and 2nd among playoff defensemen), so why aren't you discrediting them?

And Lindholm, Ekholm and Forsling aren't even the best defensemen on their own team!

So, Rielly is significantly better offensively, a much better playoff performer, plays more and is depended on more than those 3...

kaprizov should be on here
edit: nvm im stupid and cant read

If you wanna talk about 5v5 production Ekholm had more points than Rielly and Forsling had the same amount (36 for Ekholm, 30 for Forsling and Rielly) with Ekholm and Forsling both having more primary 5v5 points also (27 for Ekholm, 22 for Forsling, 20 for Rielly). They also played a similar amount of minutes at 5v5 (1345.5 for Ekholm, 1352 for Forsling, 1369 for Rielly)

Forsling, Ekholm, and Lindholm are also relied on to play on the PK. Forsling is far and away Florida’s #1 PK dman, and had the 2nd most PK minutes among dmen this season. Lindholm is Boston’s #2 PK dman, and Ekholm is Edmonton’s #3

Rielly's currently ahead of Forsling and would be ahead of Ekholm if he played the same amount of games: https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/nhl-defensemen-stats.html (IDK where you got 36, 30 and 30 from)... And again, you are missing that Rielly's played 7-10 less games than Ekholm and Forsling... So Rielly having played more EV minutes than both is impressive in 7-10 less games...

And getting to play PK with McAvoy is such a hard task... If only you get Coyle (will get Selke votes) and Marchand as your forwards... Such a reliant member of that PK unit

Same with Forsling, imagine being so reliant on the PK, with your forwards being Barkov and Reinhart...

And in EDM, Ekholm isn't even on the 1rst pair... So he's not a reliant member...

So Rielly playing more minutes total, at EV and produces more offensively...

While having similar DZone starts to Ekholm and Forsling at 5v5 and 5% less than Linholm...

EV includes 3v3 and also empty net points I believe. When you take only 5v5 Ekholm has more and Forsling has the same

https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/skater_standard/?_inputs_&std_sk_table=%22Box%20Score%22&std_sk_team=%22All%22&std_sk_pos=%22All%22&std_sk_str=%225v5%22&std_sk_adj=%22No%20Adjustment%22&std_sk_type=%22Totals%22&std_sk_range=%22Seasons%22&std_sk_span=%22Regular%22&std_sk_group=%22Team%2C%20Season%22&std_sk_age1=%2217%22&std_sk_age2=%2250%22&std_sk_dft_yr=%22All%22&std_sk_status=%22All%22&std_sk_info=%22No%22&std_sk_players=%5B%22Gustav%20Forsling%22%2C%22Mattias%20Ekholm%22%2C%22Morgan%20Rielly%22%5D&std_sk_toi=%2250%22&std_sk_season=%2220232024%22

Vasi and Sorokin over Igor is definitely a choice

Isn't 1369 (Rielly)>1351 (Forsling)>1345 (Ekholm)?

Oh, and doesn't that mean that when the game's on his stick, Rielly delivers more often than the other 2?

All 3 are extremely close and in the same tier for me. You could put Igor above them and I would totally get it

I would only put Igor above them both if we put the emphasis on this year. But then again I wouldn’t even have Igor #2 based off this year

Rielly has 1369 minutes played at 5v5 and 30 points (20 primary)
Forsling has 1352 minutes played at 5v5 and also 30 points (22 primary)
Ekholm has 1345 minutes played at 5v5 and 36 points (27 primary)

Also, thank you for using stats to back yourself up... Had too many interactions with some *cough* Leafs fans *cough* not using stats to back themselves on why a player's not good and that make the GM not good

It’s a mix of this year and in general. If it was only based on this year I’d probably have Demko at 2

Rielly has 10.4% DZone starts
Forsling has 10.2% Done starts
Ekholm has 10.7% Dzone starts

At 5v5, money puck...

Rielly most common D partner at 5v5: TJ Brodie on his off side
Ekholm most common D partner at 5v5: Evan Bouchard
Forsling most common D partner at 5v5: OEL, then Ekblad
Lindholm most sommen D partner at 5v5: Charlie McAvoy

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/morgan-rielly

At 5v5
•Forsling: 66.92 GF%, 59.1 CF%, 56.6 xGF%, 3.07 GF/60, 1.52 GA/60, 3.02 xGF/60, 2.31 xGA/60
•Lindholm: 57.26 GF%, 51 CF%, 51.48 xGF%, 2.54 GF/60, 1.9 GA/60, 2.61 xGF/60, 2.46 xGA/60
•Ekholm: 63.53 GF%, 61.35 CF%, 61.35 xGF%, 3.86 GF/60, 2.22 GA/60, 3.93 xGF/60, 2.47 xGA/60
•Rielly: 53.66 GF%, 50.67 CF%, 50.54 xGF%, 3.34 GF/60, 2.89 GA/60, 2.9 xGF/60, 2.84 xGA/60

Aho should be higher than Eichel at a minimum (higher p/g, and goals) if not Point