That's an overpay to dump Holl, so thanks! Pleasure doing business with you!

Really? I mean... I like Red Savage, but I wouldn't say he is worth much. This might be enough to dump Holl's contract, but I don't think I'd call it an overpay.

It's not much, but considering his buyout is dirt cheap I'd sooner keep Savage and the 3rd.

That's fair. His buyout is also four years, though.

I'm not overly worried about it. Detroit's gonna have a few players in decent roles on ELCs during that time.

I think the Hawks seriously consider that proposal.

I just don’t see Red beating out the other center/wing prospects that the Wings have. I think he can be an NHL guy, but the cap space to me outweighs his potential + the 3rd.

I expect if he made the NHL it’d be as a 4th line, Luke Glendening type.

I was gonna say pretty much the same thing. Bottom 6 gritty-ish role player.

I was thinking a better Czarnik. Scrappy and won’t hurt, but outside the rare impact (very rare) just a guy.

Maybe. Either way, I don’t think we need the cap bad enough to give up him and a 3rd round swing to save an extra $1.1M.

That’s fair. The whole ACGM in general was meant as unrealistic due to the volume of trades and FA signings. I did alter the TB trade to add Perbix, giving what I feel is a significant improvement to the right side.

I just don’t get keeping a guy at his cap when he has proven to not be trusted by the organization (living it up in the press box for the last month?).

Yes Holl is overpaid but he's had one season as minus player since making the show. He's exactly what Chicago needs to play alongside Del Mastro or Kaiser the next few seasons. I'd take him for FC which makes Savage and a 3rd for a 7th seem like a steal. Just my opinion though.

That is how GMs think lol

To Chicago, those two returns could add value. They could not. Is Holl a determinant factor in that, or does his contract not matter for the gamble?

To Detroit do the 3rd and Macho Man Redmond Savage outweigh the benefit of the cap space adding a Roy, bringing back a Kane, etc.

I don't think Holl is anything close to what CHI "needs." Not sure why you would hand DET cap relief and take him for FC's.



And no, that is not quite how GM's think. GM's think everything has a monetary and/or analytical value attached to it, and certain things add and take away value. Their job is to maximize whatever their goal is, whether that be winning, developing, or tanking, while also maximizing dollars they are allotted.

CHI has no reason to be interested in Holl, he isn't someone who is going to be an "experienced mentor", he isn't particularly good at his job or desirable, he barely helps us to the cap floor, he isn't a leader, he is very unlikely to bring back any additional assets at the trade deadline, and he is also a re-tread seeing as CHI drafted him and passed on him rather quickly once he became a pro. The only real value in CHI taking Holl from DET is DET gaining the cap relief. So, why would CHI, a rebuilding team who already has more than their fair share of mid round picks and bottom 6 depth forwards and defensemen, help DET out with cap relief after one season of a contract they shouldn't have signed in the first place? Well, they would do that for assets, as you have proposed, but definitely not for FC's like JK74 says they would do. I would rather go sign a free agent like Chatfield or any of the other interesting RD that will be looking for jobs this summer, than take him for FC's.

What CHI needs is more high end picks and prospects. If a cap dump isn't worth a 1st round pick, they should be trying to package together other picks to increase the value to add more 1st round picks. If the other team isn't willing to do that, then CHI should walk away. Our reserve list is already nearing the limit as it is, and our contract limit is getting there as well. If any teams need quality over quantity in the NHL, it is rebuilding teams like CHI, SJS, etc. That is how you get rebuilding teams to do things, you give them quality in exchange for quantity. Contenders like more lottery tickets, or dart throws if you will, but rebuilders like better odds.

@garak

Long winded version of saying you disagree lol

Yes, GMs do think about this, as it is quite literally their job. SY brought in Kostin at the cost of buying out Yamo, assuming the value earned would be greater than negative value taken on. That’s also why certain cap dumps require little/no incentive while others require a 1st.

The value of Holl being brought in would be measured against the value of what comes with. I never said he’d be a mentor, added value on a PP/pk role, etc. The cap space is the value to Detroit, the (3rd + Red) would need to outweigh the contract of Holl for it to be accepted.

That was a long winded way of saying you either didn't read or didn't comprehend my entire comment.

I addressed your points in my comment. Fact is we fundamentally disagree, which is fine.

I stated the value of 3 + Red would need to outweigh taking on Holl, similar to you saying GMs look money/analytics. I think you just see that value from this return as not enough, which is also fine.

Detroit is on the back end of a rebuild, Chicago should have a shorter one (must be nice having lottery glory lol). Depending on how prospects pan out, Savage and the 3rd could be enough to Chicago if they see him as a 3/4C behind Bedard and Moore moving forward, or as a depth piece. Is it a guarantee? Nope. Would Chicago ask for more? Possibly.

At the end of the day just read the description, I just wanted nice things lol. I have little to no idea how 30 teams feel about Holl. I just needed him off the books for the additions. I’m still surprised no MN fans came in and said take a hike for trading JEE, which is the least likely thing to happen in this ACGM.

You obviously didn't understand, because I was essentially agreeing with you, while disagreeing with my fellow CHI fan @JK74 that CHI would take Holl for FC's and that this was an overpay.

Ah, so I did miss that. In that regard yes I see what you’re saying. I do also agree with your premise that Chicago would be better suited acquiring a FA (like Chatfield) as they can give him the contract they want at the term they deem fair (assuming the FA accepts) unless the incentive is worth it.

All gravy. I figured you must have skimmed over some context. We all do it. haha.

But, Yeah. I think, with the wealth of picks and prospects CHI currently has, they should avoid taking on more cap dumps unless it involves bringing higher quality assets into the system, and they should be more than willing to package 2nd round (preferably, that aren't their own) and later picks together to balance value and make it happen. Whether that be higher end prospects or 1st round picks.

I always welcome differing viewpoints since while I'm usually always correct lol I also like to see things from another perspective.

haha. For sure. And there are differing opinions on a player that can change what a players value is to different people.