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Garak

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21 juin 2019
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Blackhawks de Chicago
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Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 15 heures
Sujet: They win cup with this team with Berube
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>GMBL</b></div><div>Yeah, my point was just that any team that wants Marner could consider something like Theodore + a 1st value-wise. Since, were talking about Vegas here, the chances of them doing it goes up. They've done crazier things to get the players that they wanted and get rid of players. That's why I said to say that this won't happen "with certainty is a hot take unless you're a part of their war room".

Vegas could possibly add a top-4 DFD like Matt Roy this year if they move Karlsson. Would just require them to get two cheap wingers for lines 2 and 3.
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/5129309

A top-6 with Eichel, Marner, Stone, and Hertl could be scary good. If they manage to add Roy, thentheir D-core will be similar to the one they won the Cup with with Hanifin &amp; Roy instead of Theodore &amp; Martinez.</div></div>

For sure. Also, I just edited my last comment right before you submitted your response. haha.
Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 15 heures
Sujet: Curious Marner for 2OA straight up
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CantStopWontStop</b></div><div>Well, I think this would be a rapid acceleration of their rebuild as opposed to slowing due to Marners age and expected contribution over term. They’d still have futures to maintain a healthy base, but they’d be expecting 8 great years out of marner.

Bedard is the rare 18 year old who’s nhl ready. Likely consideration that the 2OA will be 2-4 years out if D, 1-2 if forward. A delayed contribution similar to Kakko and bedard is waiting 4 years for an impact.

I don’t think Chicago should keep bedard in an extreme losing environment for 2-3 years. I think they should try to get him into a solid competitive environment asap (not contender necessarily, just not super doorstop), with as little damage to building around him as possible. Marner is a solid choice because of marners productivity with Matthews, clean injury history. Sending just 1 asset away means whatever plan can mostly stay in place. If they were to negotiate some deal with other pieces I feel everybodies plans would all be screwed up because of complexity.</div></div>

You make some solid points, but Marner still isn't worth our 2nd overall pick and I still don't think CHI even considers this. He slows the rebuild precisely because he makes us better. CHI has WAY too much work to do on their prospect pipeline to be a mid team right now picking in that "almost playoff team" area of the draft, while already having given up a 2nd overall pick for him. We don't have enough on the way to do this. Also, I would not bet on 8 great years of Marner. He would be 28 years old going into the first year of that 8 year contract. I'd expect most of that to be squandered in a rebuild, and him to be in decline and considered "overpaid" by the time CHI is truly ready. So not only is he not worth that much, but it doesn't make any sense for CHI in the short or long term. As an example, a large part of what made Hagel so valuable was his contract and being under RFA control. An aging pending UFA with a full NMC who already has a giant contract and will be expecting a raise with term, doesn't have those great selling points.

I also don't think we are anywhere near the point yet where we are "letting down Bedard" by not buying a bunch of players and being a contender. There is no reason to do that. Most highly touted players come into the league on very bad rebuilding teams, and they just have to keep working on themselves and wait like anyone else. He is going to be fine. If we don't have an elite playmaker/goal-scorer by the first season of his second contract, I might start to worry. But him not having that through his ELC, should be expected. The thing is, he already has Kurashev and should have Demidov, Nazar, Lardis, Moore, or whoever else pops and finds chemistry with him, by the 25-26 season, plus whoever we bring in as a stopgap, which could be lots of very good older veterans that shouldn't cost us valuable assets, and that should be more than enough. CHI is not rushing the rebuild. End of story.

If we were a team like ANA, DET, BUF, MTL, or OTT, who have most of their pieces in place and are trying to end their rebuilds and be true playoff teams, I might say "this year was a fluke. There is no reason we should have been this low in the standings. The rebuild is done. We don't need more prospects, we need to win." But that definitely isn't where CHI is, right now, and by the time CHI is there, Marner will be on the wrong side of 30.
Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 16 heures
Sujet: They win cup with this team with Berube
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>GMBL</b></div><div>I'm not saying they won't choose to keep Theodore, or that they should do the trade, or that if a Marner trade to VGK happens, that it would look like Theodore+ a 1st. Just saying if they didn't want him and wanted Marner instead, it's just not farfetched that they would add a 1st on top value-wise. Getting Marner would require them to move Karlsson as well, so I would assume the trade would be Theodore+Karlsson or something like that.

In terms of getting offense from the backend, they would still have Hanifin and Pietrangelo. So, if they miss him, it would be because of his defense. He's not going to stay 5M next year, so instead of signing him for 7.5M+ or 8M+, they could look to getting a cheaper defensive D in the following year when the cap rises. In terms of salary raise for Marner, there is the possibility that he re-signs for 11M or even 10.5M in a tax-haven since that would be equivalent or more than 12-12.5M in Toronto. For argument sake, let's just say it costs 12M to re-sign him. So, it would be a matter of wanting Marner until he's 34/35 or Theodore until he's 36 or 37 and Karlsson until he's 34. Theodore's production will likely take a hit before Marner's does. Just like Theodore, Marner is effective on both ends of the ice, so it's not like they are trading defense for offense purely. As for Marner's playoff woes, new place and new team with less pressure can do wonders for a player. Tkachuk in CGY during the playoffs was even worse than Marner.</div></div>

Sure. At face value, a selke finalist 100pt player is objectively more valuable than Theodore, but there are lots of other considerations that go into the value of a trade. Cost effectiveness being a big one. If he comes with a favorable extension that their cap wizard likes and VGK likes him enough as a player, maybe something like this makes sense. But I don't see him being worth much more to Vegas, than this proposal, if at all. I would also guess that TOR would value another good cost effective roster player, like Karlsson, over the 1st round pick.

Edit: Then again, it is Vegas. They seem to love spending and worrying about logistics later.
Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 16 heures
Sujet: A realistic leafs off-season
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Honestly, it's not a fair comparison to rookies. Seth is a veteran pro and leader. I get he's in a tough spot on a rebuilding team, but being the highest paid on the team and one of the players with the most tenure sets the bar for leadership much higher and leading by example. It has nothing to do with his race in most people's opinion but instead to do with the aforementioned. Not to mention he's mixed, which is about the coolest race :)</div></div>

Sure. But everyone else is gone at this point. So there isn't much left in CHI to compare to. haha. Idk, maybe I'm just sensitive to it growing up in a predominantly white podunk town hearing all the "I'm not racist, but..." comments, racial slurs, and the racially charged micro-aggressions and undertones. I even almost fell for the racist bull$hit at a young age, but luckily I had a Mexican uncle and a good family to set me straight, along with being just barely smart enough to figure out how dumb it all was.
Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 17 heures
Sujet: Dixon Ward
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Shibbal18</b></div><div>Taking on Skinners average of 60 points a year balances it out</div></div>

I don't know that it really does, and it's more like 55ppy, but close enough. Otherwise, why would BUF fans even want to move him, then? If he were 2-4 years younger I might be more willing to call this down season a fluke. He will be 32 in a few days and has shown some serious signs of decline, and you are asking CHI to take on, not only a $9m cap hit for 3 years with a full NMC, but $22 MILLION dollars in actual salary owed. The final year of his contract is a point at which cap space is going to become VERY important VERY quickly for a rebuilding CHI team. The possible reward does not outweigh the risk or the cost, and all of the benefit goes to BUF in creating $9M in cap space.

Most importantly, I don't think Skinner is going to waive for any team but a contender. He has been more patient than BUF's front office probably deserves. At 32 years old and never having seen a single NHL playoff game, why would he leave a team coming out of a rebuild for a team in the middle of one?
Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 18 heures
Sujet: A realistic leafs off-season
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>There are some outliers sure, and I agree it's really no different then white people in basketball, lots of racist stuff there too. That said, it's best IMO to set examples and focus on the hockey player regardless of color. To that extent, Jones is overpaid by $2M and agree Bowman the buffoon screwed that up and likely to deflect against the beach situation as well. However, Jones does frustrate me at times, as he gets frustrated with the situation in Chicago (rightfully so) and takes nights off like he's going through the motions. When he does give it his all, he's a top line guy on 90% of NHL teams.</div></div>

I don't think it is just outliers. Sure the loud and blatantly racist ones are a small minority, but subconscious and systemic racism is absolutely wide spread. POC are ALWAYS under more of a microscope than white dudes in Hockey. I get wanting stay objective and set the example, and I realize pointing it out is uncomfortable, but that doesn't make it any less true. So, if we are having discussions in a group setting in a public forum, such as CapFriendly, when people bring up all the backwards talking points about him, it is worth noting that most of those narratives stem from unfair and/or racist biases. So, sure, he does frustrate at times, but no more than Fliggy, Dicky, Vlasic, Bedsy, or anyone else frustrates me at times, but everyone loves them and no one picks them apart nearly as much. If they make mistakes everyone forgets about them after a couple days or even minutes. $hit, most of the time people just ignore their mistakes entirely, like they don't even see the blatantly dumb move they just made and/or they immediately make excuses for them.
Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 18 heures
Sujet: Spread the love
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Wz92</b></div><div>Your analysis is off.

Jones was vilified in Chicago not long ago because he hasn't been playing up to his contract. He isn't even worth 7.5. this trade makes plenty of sense.

To say Chicago laughs and hangs up is such a weird response. you're a nobody. Who are you to act like you know what they're gonna do? You think your a bowman? Lol c'mon man

Relax on the aggressiveness, it's not like the trade was offensive. You get a top 10 player in the league and he goes to market thats smaller than Toronto. You also get a first round pick defenseman that by no means has been a bust.

And like buddy said- any trade Mitch does comes with an extension. They don't have to make it clear. Mitch has a no move. He's only going to approve a trade if he wants to sign. There long term...</div></div>

Most of the naysayers about Jones were not CHI fans or on the CHI beat, most of that talk came from the outside. There are only a small and loud group of CHI fans who would agree. The problem was never Jones, it was Stan Bowman, and he is gone.