Mercer is not on the table unless Markstrom AND hanifin come our way both with 50% retention

Great, but Very Unlikely Returns

NJD doesn’t want to give up Mercer and BOS doesn’t want to give up Lohrei apparently

As a Calgary fan i think
Mercer is more valuable than Markstrom straight up
Tanev getting a 1st when they're only asking for a 2nd and decent prospect would be a cool return
Calgary would need to take Grz back for cap balance, this return would be good but, I don't think Boston goes that high

Leafs decline

hardest of passes from boston - a 1st and lohrei is a non starter. adding to that isn't happening.

How much for a Tanev+Hanifin combo?

Flames don't get into the Mercer kind of returns without 50% retention and adding to the deal. If they traded Markstrom to New Jersey I think Holtz + Bahl + a pick is a little closer to realisting.

Mercer is not the option. If anyone, Holtz would be the guy…but I am still skeptical NJD would do that.

It appears the Markstrom to NJD has hit a dead end.

Exactly, there has been reports of Holtz being more of a realistic target over Mercer for Markstrom with the other pieces. Calgary is supposedly very interested in Holtz. That being said even with said pieces, the finances over Markstroms contract is what is holding up all talks.

It would be a real shame if the Flames lost a huge deal because they're still unwilling to retain any money ever. Super irritating from ownership.

I don't think it is over retaining any money at all but how much. Retaining like 3 million for the remaining years when Calgary is more interested in a retool.over rebuild is tough.
I think Calgary would be fine with like 2 million retained, question is can New Jersey stomach that.

The returns are too high. Its valuing good young players about a round lower than what they are worth

That said, I’d argue that retention of Vanacek is worth 2.8 to 3.8m over two years by itself.

Hanifin Trade Comps are Hampus Lindholm, Chychrun and Orlov, so a 1st + Top Prospect/1st + 2nd/? + 3rd/? + Roster Player/Cap Swap

Tanev Unretained is a 2nd + B Prospect/Decent Roster Player. With retention, he could fetch a 1st+ given the amount of interest and demand there is for him right now

Lying to yourself about those returns lmao

Orlov when you take out external factors such as the cap dump they took and other effective player they sent out and retention returned a 1st.

Again when you take out retention, cap dump it is about Vaak+1st or 1st+2nd for unretained Lindholm

I didn’t think so. Hanifin is playing and producing far better than all 3 comps were at the time they were Traded. Hanifin is young, reliable and doesn’t have the injury history Chychrun does and he’s the #1 Trade Board Piece right now

We may have to take a large cap hit back like we did with Kuzmenko, but whether the player will be a cap dump or have negative value will be debatable and even if it is, we should be compensated accordingly for doing so

Chychrun had 3 years left on his deal. Not a comparable to a rental

Chychrun also has an injury history and bad knees, isn’t as good defensively and doesn’t play as many minutes because he’s rarely used on the PK…

I’d rather have the guy who doesn’t miss games and I can rely on as opposed to a guy who’s constantly injured and almost never plays an entire season. I think the only full season Chychrun played was the shortened 56 game season

Cool facts about Chychrun. Still not a rental, still not a comparable.

Agree to Disagree lol

Chychrun had 3 years left on his deal

Hanifin has 1.

Those are objective facts.

They are completely different markets.

In the rental market, age means very little, as does AAV because you can retain to whatever price you like.

It has higher floors but MUCH lower ceilings.

When buying a guy with term age matters. A 26 year old with 3 years left is for example much more valuable than a 34 year old with 3 years left (cough Markstrom cough).

Contract matters more as well.

This market has much lower floors (cap dumps or FC on a guy), but much higher ceilings.

I’d argue the worst time to sell is the offseason with 1 year left on his deal. Ceilings are low and so are floors (see Monahan where Calgary had to pay out the nose because they wanted the shiny new toy from free agency)

And of course prospects, ELC, and RFAs are their own market as well.

Yes the off-season and during the season are the worst times to trade. Best times are at the Draft or better yet at the Trade Deadline when more Teams have Cap Space Available and Roster Needs either for injury replacements and/or to ramp up for the Playoffs

Sign & Trades don’t really exist on UFA’s, but I imagine allowing Agents to discuss and pre-negotiate extensions to be signed upon arrival do

Regardless, who else is available better than Hanifin and at what cost. Rentals fetch huge returns too, not just players with term, so that’s the expectation from my side = Huge = Elias Lindholm return for Noah Hanifin

I’m happy to give the Elias Lindholm return

25 1st+Bahl+Vitek+4th+Ethan Edwards. There’s your return

1st+Bahl=1st+Bruz (especially since Calgary is stated as wanting NHL ready assets)
Vitek=Kuzmenko (but I’d be happy to go find another cap dump from another team if you want)
4th=4th
Edwards=Jurmo

NJD Elias Lindholm return would be something like this:
1st + Casey/Holtz + Toffoli/Siegenthaler/Marino FOR Hanifin

I took the 4th + Bahl out for the 1st being a higher pick than the VAN Pick and Casey being arguably slightly better than Brzustewicz

1st + Casey/Holtz + Vanecek FOR Markstrom

If NJD would prefer to send Mercer instead of a 1st + Holtz-Casey, that’d be fine too

Holtz>>>>Casey>>>>Bruz

If you offered me Bruz+Late 1st for Holtz I would decline in a heartbeat.
If you offered me Bruz+Late 1st for Casey I would be 50/50

I wouldn’t move either of Marino or Siegenthaler for Hanifin 1 for 1. Again toffoli is a top tier rental, Kuzmenko is a cap dump.

The gap between these assets is massive

If you offered me Kuzmenko+2 1sts for Siegs I would decline
If you offered me Kuzmenko+2 1sts for Marino I would consider
If you offered me Kuzmenko+1st for toffoli I would decline.

Your comparables are not within reason.

Youre like 3+ 1sts off in value every time

Palat would be a better comparable if you want a forward but he has more term on his dump and older. I’d rather have him on my team than Kuzmenko tho

Your position on Kuzmenko weakens your argument tremendously

Kuzmenko has 49 Goals and 97 Points in 128GP = 0.76PPG

That’s not a Cap Dump lol

The difference between Casey & Holtz vs. Brzustewicz is not a 1st Round Pick. Regardless, the Flames have no need for either of them. We have Coronato and Brzustewicz to develop and find spots for