They won't be sellers at the deadline, and quite frankly I don't think they'll be worse than last year. Still a full summer to play out.

They're also apparently in positive extension talks with Guentzel, so if that happens before the season he's not getting traded.

I agree.
This bro needs to chill… Dubas hasn’t even had time to settle into his Pittsburgh house and he’s already projecting doom and gloom bc that’s easier to do than predict success. I don’t think the pens are all of a sudden contenders but this roster is much better in many ways than last years… obviously it can only get better when we’re able to clear some bad contracts or they finish in a year or two

Nieto-Eller-Acciari probably going to be a shutdown line.

Think people need to realize at the end of the day the UFA class wasn't good for starters, and the penguins were not going to ever be in on Bertuzzi, Duchene, Killorn or Bunting. Would've loved Erod but not at the term/aav he got.

There are definitely still things I'd like to see, but I think overall its fine. Would love to see if Grandlund and DeSmith could be moved to add to the third line.

If this team is the exact same at the start of the season, then I will be very concerned. As of now it is not a playoff team. It's slightly better than last year, but most teams in the east are significantly or marginally better than last year. There's like 13 good teams competing for 8 spots.

Big emphasis on if it is the same though. I just can't believe that this is the roster Dubas will run headed into the season. I really believe we still have a great chance to land Karlsson. If that happens, our top 4 D is elite. A definite advantage over most other teams.

Accari-Nieto-Eller is a great great 4th line. Our third line is where the issues are. Granlund-Carter-Nylander, what is is currently, would be the worst 3rd line in the NHL, by far. I believe Dubas will try and upgrade here too.

Overall, I think we need to give Dubas a fair chance. I just can't buy that this is how the roster will look going into the season. He knows how good the metro is. If this is the roster going into the season, I will be very very concerned and will be the first one on here saying we'll be sellers at the deadline. But I trust Dubas. He's a smart GM and will make more moves almost certainly.

Not saying we won't do it, but I don't think it makes sense to extend Guentzel this summer. Even if were 99% sure were keeping him. Wait until the TDL and see how this team is. If were 10-20 points out of a playoff spot is it really the right move to extend or do we need to ask questions about whether it's time for the rebuild. Not saying that is likely outcome, but I just don't see the rush. Wait at least a few weeks into the season to see how the team looks.

I really don't have much interest in Karlsson unless the price is absolutely perfect, like i mean you're getting him at $6M AAV tops. If you can get SJ to retain $3M and trade to a third team to retain an additional $3M then that's amazing, but I think you're going to probably need to at least send a 1st to SJS, Petry, DeSmith, probably something else (pick/prospect) then you'd probably need to send a combo of pick & prospect to third team to retain the other 3M.

Even if you get him in at $6M you're over the cap still and would need to move Rutta and Granlund somehow. Granlund will cost additional assets to move but i think you can move Rutta and receive a late pick back.

So at the end of the day, you're moving multiple picks and prospects to acquire a heavily retained 33yr old EK.

Personally, i'd rather spend what's probably a 2nd round pick and a prospect to move Granlund out, find someone willing to take DeSmith and Rutta. Sign a 3C and 3LW and you're set.

and what i'd really like to see Dubas do, is move those three and Offer sheet Laf out from the rags, take a chance on him. OS around 4M for 1 yr, might squeeze the rags because they're trying to sign him and K'andre Miller. No clue if that's possibly to land but that'd give you a young player to gamble on.

An elite one at that

I would offer sheet Laf. But if we don't get Karlsson I still think we need to move Petry and get a good puck mover. I don't trust him on 2nd pair. Defense couldn't defend in front of our net and also had a ton of trouble in the transition game last year. Solved first one with Graves but second one still isn't solved. It's tough cause the third line is also completely brutal right now. I think we can both agree the roster needs quite a bit more work, whether Karlsson or not.

I think Karlsson deal could be something like Petry, Smith, Puustinen (or another WBS guy), two 2nds, and a 3rd for him 30% retained and then move Rutta. Definitely could be wrong here and see it need to have a 1st, I just feel like SJ doesn't have a ton of leverage.

If they weren't in on them then that's their own fault though - hence the complaints. Erod got a 3mil AAV that's perfectly fair.

How is it their own fault though... why do people on this website think it's NHL24 create a team. The penguins could call Matt Duchene and say "Hey we'll give you 1X5" and he could simply say no and take the Dallas offer because that's what he wants lol.

Someone like Bertuzzi wasn't realistic in the slightest unless they didn't trade for Reilly Smith and i'd say basically the entire league was surprised he didn't stay in Boston after they specifically moved hall to make space for him.

I have a feeling Florida beat everyone to Erod with the term. $3M AAV is perfectly fine, but I bet other teams were offering 1-3 year deals and florida came in at 4. That's most likely a leading factor as to why the Pens landing Graves, probably beat teams offering 4 year deals with a 6 year deal. If i'm someone like Erod i'm going to take a term deal and lock up my money. I would've definitely loved having him.

3C FA market was really crap this year. I want no part of Max Domi at 3C so pass that. Glass/Jost/McLeod all stayed with their same teams.

ROR choose to go to a rebuilding Nashville over staying in Toronto so I'm not sure what that says... probably just looking for Term/Money. Comphere got overpaid in Detroit.

After that it's pretty vacant.... Geekie would've been a nice land but maybe the pens didn't look.

I felt going into the offseason that 3C was either sticking to Granlund or they were going to have to make a trade for someone.

I just said "if they weren't in on them" it's their own fault. Meaning if they didn't try to get them - I was just responding to your comment of saying they were "never going to be in on them". Because why wouldn't they be?

If you get beat on term then you're still on on someone though. That's my point. And the Pens should have no issues giving term with a small window. The Erod contract is fair is what I'm trying to say. The Pens should have gladly taken him at that contract if possible.

ROR and Erod would've been great 3Cs. It doesn't even have to be a 3C either - they signed Acciari, he can play 3C - but then spend the money on a good winger to go with him. I don't want Domi at 3C either but he's still a decent enough winger. They wasted money on Eller and Ned - and by not dumping Granlund

Again, it's just simply not easy to move someone like Petry, if it were that easy it would've already happened.

I think the top 4 is fine as is, you have to remember how banged up the defense was last year. Letang missed a lot of time, Petry missed time, you had times where Dumo and petry were a pair... dumolin was awful and i thought POJ improved as the season went along.

Also, you aren't getting EK without a 1st round pick... come on. Guy just won his third Norris and had 101 points specially if your package is Petry, Smith, Puustinen. Gotta throw a First. Specially when the Canes can offer someone like Pesce whom is vastly better than Petry. I also thought i read that Grier said they'd only retain 20% which isn't enough for the penguins, if you want another team to eat an addition 3-3.5M you're going to have to probably pay a 2nd for that.

It's not easy to move Petry at all, but it's not impossible. Need to get creative to move bad contracts. Defense isn't good enough to win a cup. It was a disaster last year, even when fully healthy, and I think it will take move than swapping Dumo for Graves, even though I like the Graves signing as a start. I just cannot look at this team as is and see it as a playoff team, much less a cup contender. Our third line and bottom 6 is a real problem as is. If Crosby Malkin or Letang get hurt or don't completely carry the team there is no one to step up and produce offense. Bottom 6 as is produces no offense and our defense doesn't produce any except Letang. Considering how much better the east got too I just don't see the team as is getting more than 75-80 points. That's where Karlsson would help. At this point if were going to go all in trade a 1st for him. I was fully onboard for keeping the 1st, making small bets on younger players/unqualified UFA's and seeing what happens. But we gave out big contracts in FA. We already decided to go all in so that's why I'd get Karlsson. We desperately need more offense.

You’re absolutely right, there really was a dry market for depth centers this year that fit our outlook and plan of what we are going for. As you said, it seems more and more evident Granlund stays and we build around him on that 3rd line. Maybe we go with a plan of attack Dubas has been headlining with, that being low risk high reward type deals or signings. Smith being the perfect example, take advantage of a cap strapped team and get a productive Stanley cup winger for just a third rounder. Ideally we pay a similar price for a serviceable finisher in the bottom 6 and fit said winger under the cap. I would absolutely feel more comfortable heading towards the season if a move like that was to be done. I would hope it’s not just we go and get EK and dump a salary or 2 and then fill the roster with what we have. I think it’s almost certain that we NEED another above average addition, maybe even 2 to our bottom 6, specifically being that 3rd line.

Got it. Misunderstood you for sure there.

Yeah all I can assume is that they tried and basically got an immediate no from the players agent, if ROR is going to a rebuilding team then I think he's just looking for $ and term.

Granlund speculation is vast... Imo there are a lot of what ifs... like listen he wasn't great in his time with the penguins, no hiding that. However, he did still have 41 points on the year, i'll definitely take that at 3C. I assumed though if they planed to keep him they'd give him better shooting options, which maybe they runt rust at LW for Malkin and Nylander on his right and pump Reilly smith to the third with Granlund (Speculation). Per moneypuck Granlund centered a line of DOC and Rakell last year (don't remember this) only 36.3 minutes of ice time but 1.6 xGoals for vs. 0.5 xGoals against. tiny tiny clip obviously but would say that shows that maybe with some confident wingers that can drive there is some success to be had.


Maybe Dubas/team felt confident they could move him to a team for something back. Again, 41 points and only 31. Yeah 2x5 remaining isn't great but maybe he was confident they had a fit for him and the team backed out.

Completely agree, without at least 2 more finishing touches to either top top 4d or the bottom 6, this team is dust. It’s simple. It’s time to start seeing it that way from a fan perspective. The metro is stacked. The current roster we have right now is likely beaten out by 3 other teams in that top 3 race. Hell, then you look at the wild card teams that are a possibility, and it becomes even MORE of a limbo.

You keep saying you need to get creative, but I don't think you realize where things sit in the league right now. There are so many teams that are cap strapped man. There isn't a lot of room for creativity in this market. Ottawa, Seattle, Arizona, Chicago and Anaheim are the only teams currently with $10M + in space. I'm guessing with Petry's NTC Arizona, Ottawa, Seattle and Anaheim are all on that list, and Seattle's will shrink when they resign Vince Dunn.

If they really want to move Petry, Chicago is your best bet, and I would bet they're going to want a 1st, and then you have to go and trade for his replacement most likely because the RD FA market is blah.

Have you looked at the FA class next year? Why would teams want to potentially add term and cap this year when you have some of the following players up next summer:

Matthews, Stamkos, Aho, Nylander, Reinhart, Guentzel

Teams know how screwed the penguins are with cap right now from Petry, Granlund and Carter. They either spend their way out of it and further ruin their future or accept what they have

It's all good lol. I get what you were trying to say - especially for a guy like Duchene. It's clear he wanted to go to Dallas, nothing the Pens offered him would've made him come here.

I guess who they tried to get is something we'll probably never know. If money and term is what ROR wanted though - they should have given it to him. Pens could have easily given him 4x4.5mil. And would have this team looking a lot better.

Yeah, but with Granlund, all of his points came from playing top 6C with guys like Forsberg/Duchene/Niederreiter etc in Nashville. Highly doubtful for me that he puts up that point total as 3C here. Plus he's bad defensively and making 5mil. That's not good for a 3C. The only hope I see to make Granlund productive enough is putting him at 2RW.

I'm sure that's what Dubas thought, but that's a giant risk and if it doesn't happen you're stuck with him. And even if you get rid of him now who can they even sign? Sure if we look only at points he had 41 points - but 36 of those came in Nashville playing top 6. 5 came with the Pens playing bottom 6.

ROR signing is weird, apparently Toronto offered something close and he still took NSH... so that's a mystery in itself lol.

My honest opinion at the end of the day is Dubas mentioned he didn't want to sell the future (assets and picks) while trying to make the team competitive still, which honestly is smart. End of the day it's a business, and we've watched teams full send when they have a core group to the point of the core retires and the team is just NOTHING for years. If you can retool on the move that's great. Maybe guys also don't want to sign in Pittsburgh like they used to.. like I get it, Crosby, Malkin, letang are still there and going, but guys in the league may look and go "hey 5 years ago i would've been all in there but I like the chances on this team instead"

My hot take, Dubas signs Matthews in Pittsburgh next year. If the leafs don't do anything this year in playoffs I think he leaves.

I have no issue not selling future assets - but then you need to spend your money on good free agents. He said he was going to do neither - and it seems like he's sticking to it. And how can you build a good team if you do neither? This team isn't any more competitive than last year in my opinion as it currently stands - especially when you look at other teams around the East. And one of Crosby/Malkin are due for an injury lol.

This team is going to be nothing for years whether they kept this years 1st or not. And if he could retool that would be great - I don't think he did that. Sometimes players find crazy good chemistry together - and that's all we can hope for. But as is, on paper, this roster isn't going anywhere

well i think the retool would take a few years as opposed to some decade long attempt at a rebuild. I also don't think he was necessarily aiming to retool. If you sign Matthews next summer things could get interesting.

Again, I think at the end of the day this ended up being a way tougher FA period that he anticipated. Like look at a lot of these signings by other teams, i'm not sure what was there to be done...

LW - i don't think pens were in on Betuzzi or Bunting. After that like the Killor, Engvall (7yrs?!?!?) Kerfoot and Zucker contracts were unbeatable, Avs gave Miles Wood 6 years (lol) JVR is old as dirt, Pacioretty is old and coming of an Achilles. Would've liked to have seen Donato... that's about it.

RW - even worse. Duchene clearly wanted Dallas, Wheeler is cooked, Fast stayed with Carolina, I would've liked to see a run at Yamamoto, Fischer or maybe Connor Brown, but the oilers gave him a truck load of incentive bonuses.

Like it was so rough out there I think everyone is really overlooking that factor.

Jersey, Carolina, New York, Washington, and potentially even Islanders are all better than us in metro. Lightning, Leafs, Sabres, and Ottawa I would say are in the Atlantic. Completely agree with what you said, need at least 2 more moves to be in the conversation. I mean a third line of Nylander Carter Granlund is even worse than Carter Kapanen McGinn.

I gotcha - I thought you meant retool right now. My bad.

Idk though when I look at these other FA signings it seems pretty fair in terms of deals. I didn't a bunch of players get grossly overpaid or anything. In terms of what could have been done - he could have not signed Eller or Ned and bought out Granlund. Would've given them over 8mil in cap space

I don't think they were in on Bertuzzi either - but I do think they were probably looking at Bunting. And if they weren't, that's their fault and a bad move. 3mil to Engvall wasn't unbeatable. Neither was 3.5mil to Kerfoot. And you honestly believe that Zucker wouldn't have taken less to stay with the Pens as opposed to signing in Arizona? JVR isn't any older than Eller - he's also better and was cheaper. I'd rather take a risk on a great player like Pac recovering than give that money to Eller or a third string goalie.

Wheeler at 850K is a steal lol. And we gave 2,5mil to a more cooked Eller - with term. I would've taken Yamomoto or Fischer at those prices for sure.

Was it really that rough though? And how rough would it have been if they didn't sign Eller, Ned and bought out Granlund?

Engvall got 7 years though... the penguins were not doing that, if they offered 3x3 and he's getting an offer of 7x3 by NYI i mean what can you do lol. You can't offer the same deal, that's terrible. Pretty sure isles fans are pissed they locked Mayfield and Engvall in at 7 years lol.

They claimed they were talking with Zucker, so i'm guessing he didn't want to take whatever they offered.

Wheeler is another one though that I think had his eyes set on specific teams, so sure 850K is a steal, but i'm not sure he's taking that same deal in Pittsburgh...

I may stand alone on the Bunting train, but I think his numbers were vastly over inflated given who he played with, and he would've been with Malkin, does he achieve anywhere close to those same #s?

And i agree that there were plenty of fair deals, but a lot of them where for players who simply resigned to their same teams (Fast, Jost, Glass, McLeod).

If you buy out Granlund and don't sign Ned or Eller you're around $6.5M in cap, but i'd drop that closer to $5 because they've yet to announce anything on DOC and Smith. You assume they sign DOC and he plays 3LW, Nieto/Acciari/Carter 4th line? Nylander or rust 3RW?

If you give Erod that deal do you really feel much better about the following bottom 6:

DOC/EROD/Nylander
Nieto/Acciari/Carter

Like maybe slightly better, but still not moving the needle.