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Another idea on trading 5OA

Créé par: jonh514
Équipe: 2023-24 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 7 juin 2023
Publié: 7 juin 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
If you are thinking about picking Reinbacher, why not do this instead?
Transactions
MTL
  1. Nemec, Simon
Détails additionnels:
Habs get a future star, Slovakian, top pair, RHD
NJD
  1. Barron, Justin
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (MTL)
Détails additionnels:
Habs give up a 3/4 RHD who is further along in his development
Habs give up the Michkov pick
Rachats de contrats
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
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7 juin 2023 à 6 h 15
#1
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Dont overthink it, draft BPA (probably Smith or Michkov).
7 juin 2023 à 6 h 16
#2
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Quoting: Goreton
Dont overthink it, draft BPA (probably Smith or Michkov).


Ok with Smith. Not interested in Michkov.
7 juin 2023 à 6 h 19
#3
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Modifié 7 juin 2023 à 6 h 27
Quoting: jonh514
Ok with Smith. Not interested in Michkov.


Seems like an easy 1 for 1, but Barron isn't adding a whole lot of value anyways. I think MTL would be better off trading back and drafting Reinbacher than doing this though. I could see MTL just straight up selecting him at 5th if it's Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson, and Smith taken.
7 juin 2023 à 6 h 22
#4
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Quoting: jonh514
Ok with Smith. Not interested in Michkov.


Nonsense. Michkov is the 2nd best player in that draft. Would automatically become the best player the habs had in like 20 years... Gotta stop reading bad/false reports on him.
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7 juin 2023 à 6 h 30
#5
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Quoting: Goreton
Nonsense. Michkov is the 2nd best player in that draft. Would automatically become the best player the habs had in like 20 years... Gotta stop reading bad/false reports on him.


If I'm MTL, I'm turning Slafkovsky into a C and drafting Michkov if he's on the board. He won't be available in a while but this team isn't ready to make the playoffs yet anyways.

If Michkov isn't available, then maybe consider trading back and drafting Reinbacher based on need if they can land Dubois.
7 juin 2023 à 6 h 33
#6
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Quoting: GMBL
If I'm MTL, I'm turning Slafkovsky into a C and drafting Michkov if he's on the board, if not maybe consider trading back and drafting Reinbacher based on need if they can land Dubois.


I dont think Slaf has the IQ to be a center. Personally, if Im trading back, its for Leonard.
7 juin 2023 à 6 h 43
#7
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Quoting: Goreton
I dont think Slaf has the IQ to be a center. Personally, if Im trading back, its for Leonard.


He was asked in his draft interviews if he thinks he could play C in the NHL and I think he said yes. I'm thinking he could pull it off with enough determination and leeway.
7 juin 2023 à 6 h 47
#8
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Quoting: GMBL
He was asked in his draft interviews if he thinks he could play C in the NHL and I think he said yes. I'm thinking he could pull it off with enough determination and leeway.


He also said he was ready to play in the league... and we both know he wasnt ready at all. Should have played in Laval all year.
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7 juin 2023 à 6 h 50
#9
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Quoting: Goreton
He also said he was ready to play in the league... and we both know he wasnt ready at all. Should have played in Laval all year.


Well if he's moving to C, definitely would have to start in Laval.
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7 juin 2023 à 7 h 19
#10
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Quoting: Goreton
Nonsense. Michkov is the 2nd best player in that draft. Would automatically become the best player the habs had in like 20 years... Gotta stop reading bad/false reports on him.


But... I am reading and listening to reports from scouts and journalists. I should discard that because of your opinion?

I am also basing this on my knowledge and experience as a person who works in various teams and manages people every day.

I do not believe in creating double-standards for certain team members and I cannot see a world where the Habs and Michkov get on the same page about what he has to do to have success in the NHL. They can't even go see him in person and talk to him.

The lack of access to the player or the ability to influence his development in the same way you can influence the development of a player closer to home is a much bigger problem than you seem to realize. The biggest innovation HuGo has brought to the Habs is getting serious about player development.

The reason the majority of our 1st round picks were basically flops during the Bergevin era was not poor scouting, it was abysmal player development.
7 juin 2023 à 7 h 24
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Quoting: GMBL
If I'm MTL, I'm turning Slafkovsky into a C and drafting Michkov if he's on the board. He won't be available in a while but this team isn't ready to make the playoffs yet anyways.

If Michkov isn't available, then maybe consider trading back and drafting Reinbacher based on need if they can land Dubois.


McKeen's has Reinbacher as the 3rd ranked defenseman in the draft, but sure, let's ignore the team that has the best central European scouts in the business and go with the hype.
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7 juin 2023 à 7 h 34
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Quoting: Goreton
Nonsense. Michkov is the 2nd best player in that draft. Would automatically become the best player the habs had in like 20 years... Gotta stop reading bad/false reports on him.


I don't know what your on but thats obsurd the Habs have had players in the past 20 years that are far better than Michkov
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7 juin 2023 à 7 h 40
#13
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Quoting: titchy_jelly
I don't know what your on but thats obsurd the Habs have had players in the past 20 years that are far better than Michkov


If Skill was all it took, Drouin would have been a superstar.
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7 juin 2023 à 7 h 40
#14
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Modifié 7 juin 2023 à 7 h 49
I'd rather draft Michkov (or Smith) but this is an interesting idea no doubt, I think adding Barron in is an overpay though.

Quoting: titchy_jelly
I don't know what your on but thats obsurd the Habs have had players in the past 20 years that are far better than Michkov


Michkov projects to be a 100 point player... the habs have not had any in 20+ years.

Quoting: jonh514
But... I am reading and listening to reports from scouts and journalists. I should discard that because of your opinion?


? Almost all scouts and rankings have him in the top 3 of this draft, and it is also consensus that the top 3 in this draft are all typical #1's in most draft years. So are you really listening?

Panarin and Kaprizov had no outside development from the NHL, they are stars... and is ironic to say you should discard what scouts / journalists say because of someone else's opinion when you are also giving your own opinion (and using it to contradict scouts rankings)... everyone is allowed to have an opinion.
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7 juin 2023 à 7 h 42
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
I'd rather draft Michkov (or Smith) but this is an interesting idea no doubt, I think adding Barron in is an overpay though.



Michkov projects to be a 100 point player... the habs have not had any in 20+ years.


Depends who you ask. Michkov's ceiling is 100 point player... His floor is Nail Yakupov.
7 juin 2023 à 7 h 46
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
I'd rather draft Michkov (or Smith) but this is an interesting idea no doubt, I think adding Barron in is an overpay though.



Michkov projects to be a 100 point player... the habs have not had any in 20+ years.


We are the ones who want to make a deal, so we need to overpay
7 juin 2023 à 7 h 49
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Why does NJD do this though? Nemec is, as you put, a future star, top pair, RHD, who could be slowly introduced into the league with Marino and Hamilton locked in long term ahead of him. Why do they start over just because you added Barron who likely doesn't make the roster anyway?

Makes sense for MTL, not so much for NJD. IMO.
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7 juin 2023 à 7 h 49
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Quoting: jonh514
We are the ones who want to make a deal, so we need to overpay


... if there isn't mutual interest then don't make the deal. Draft BPA.

Quoting: Ritzy
Why does NJD do this though? Nemec is, as you put, a future star, top pair, RHD, who could be slowly introduced into the league with Marino and Hamilton locked in long term ahead of him. Why do they start over just because you added Barron who likely doesn't make the roster anyway?

Makes sense for MTL, not so much for NJD. IMO.


Because they get a top 4 D in Barron (not as good as Nemec sure) but then they also get to draft 5th overall in which it is practically concensus that every player in this year's top 5 is better than the 1st pick from last year's draft. For you to not even mention the top 5 pick in this year's draft means you are overlooking this deal... the premise is (should be) that NJD likes a player at 5th overall more than Nemec (or as much as Nemec), getting Barron in the deal would thus make it a no brainer.

And when you say start over, you mean get a prospect one year younger? Most likely a forward that will develop faster than a D man anyways?
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7 juin 2023 à 7 h 56
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Quoting: jonh514
Depends who you ask. Michkov's ceiling is 100 point player... His floor is Nail Yakupov.


... yes depends on who you ask. If you ask Pronman his ceiling is higher than Bedard's.

Ranked #3 by the Athletic Pronman
Ranked #2 by the Athleic Wheeler
Ranked #3 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #4 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #3 by FCHOCKEY
Ranked #3 by DAILY FACEOFF
Ranked #4 by THE HOCKEY NEWS
Ranked #4 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE
Ranked #5 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #4 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON
Ranked #2 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters)
Ranked #5 by SPORTSNET
Ranked #3 by RECRUIT SCOUTING
Ranked #3 by DOBBERPROSPECTS
Ranked #2 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY
Ranked #3 by SMAHT SCOUTING

I truly believe Michkov would be a consensus top 3 pick if it wasn't for the situation in Russia, and that's OK with me just be thankful he should be there at 5th overall.

I don't think any decisions can be made until the habs talk to this kid anyways though, which they should have an opportunity to do so in person when he comes to the draft.
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7 juin 2023 à 8 h 4
#20
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
... if there isn't mutual interest then don't make the deal. Draft BPA.



Because they get a top 4 D in Barron (not as good as Nemec sure) but then they also get to draft 5th overall in which it is practically concensus that every player in this year's top 5 is better than the 1st pick from last year's draft. For you to not even mention the top 5 pick in this year's draft means you are overlooking this deal... the premise is (should be) that NJD likes a player at 5th overall more than Nemec (or as much as Nemec), getting Barron in the deal would thus make it a no brainer.

And when you say start over, you mean get a prospect one year younger? Most likely a forward that will develop faster than a D man anyways?


I will add that NJD are pretty set at D, but will probably have a hard time signing everyone at forward and having a young forward other than Holtz coming up into the top 6 would probably be attractive.
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7 juin 2023 à 8 h 12
#21
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
... yes depends on who you ask. If you ask Pronman his ceiling is higher than Bedard's.

Ranked #3 by the Athletic Pronman
Ranked #2 by the Athleic Wheeler
Ranked #3 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #4 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #3 by FCHOCKEY
Ranked #3 by DAILY FACEOFF
Ranked #4 by THE HOCKEY NEWS
Ranked #4 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE
Ranked #5 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #4 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON
Ranked #2 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters)
Ranked #5 by SPORTSNET
Ranked #3 by RECRUIT SCOUTING
Ranked #3 by DOBBERPROSPECTS
Ranked #2 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY
Ranked #3 by SMAHT SCOUTING

I truly believe Michkov would be a consensus top 3 pick if it wasn't for the situation in Russia, and that's OK with me just be thankful he should be there at 5th overall.

I don't think any decisions can be made until the habs talk to this kid anyways though, which they should have an opportunity to do so in person when he comes to the draft.


It's a fair point. But I think the fact that Nick Bobrov who is born in Russian cannot even get back into the country is telling about the sort of access the Habs will have to influence development.

I think the Habs central thesis about drafting is:

1) Players who have the personality to play in Montreal without caving to the pressure, and without losing themselves in the nightlife
2) Players who are talented
3) Players who are coachable through their critical development years

I feel like it's going to be really hard to get a beat on #1 in 1 short conversation and with this geopolitical mess you basically have to throw out #3 and hope he develops well, kind of like we did through the Bergevin years (we all saw how that turned out).

They say doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity... Does it apply here, I'm really not sure but I don't think it's worth the risk.
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7 juin 2023 à 8 h 37
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Quoting: jonh514
It's a fair point. But I think the fact that Nick Bobrov who is born in Russian cannot even get back into the country is telling about the sort of access the Habs will have to influence development.

I think the Habs central thesis about drafting is:

1) Players who have the personality to play in Montreal without caving to the pressure, and without losing themselves in the nightlife
2) Players who are talented
3) Players who are coachable through their critical development years

I feel like it's going to be really hard to get a beat on #1 in 1 short conversation and with this geopolitical mess you basically have to throw out #3 and hope he develops well, kind of like we did through the Bergevin years (we all saw how that turned out).

They say doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity... Does it apply here, I'm really not sure but I don't think it's worth the risk.


1. Michkov won't have to worry about Montreal's night life for a few years (and that's on the team to help him - stick him with a good vet his first year over). He's been a star his whole life I think he can handle the pressure of playing in MTL. As you say Hughes will need to get a good feel of this player in an interview, but Bobrov will have known him for years and isn't his father a scout for SKA? He will have better insight into Michkov than most.

2. He no doubt has the talent.

3. If it was still the Bergevin years I would say perfect let Michkov develop outside of the NHL for 3 years, we are one full season out of Bergevin and how do we feel about the new regime's development of 18 year olds so far? Honestly, I think Slafkovsky would have been better off playing outside of the NHL for another season, just my opinion. Additionally, SKA has already proven they have Michkov's development in their best interest:

https://hockey30-com.translate.goog/nouvelles/scoop-de-tva-sports-matvei-michkov-pourra-rejoindre-le-canadien-de-montreal-en-2026/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

The equivalent of what SKA did for Michkov last year would have been like Seattle not playing Wright, sending him to the AHL but he is too good for the AHL, so then loaning him to the worst team in the NHL (Anaheim) just so he can play against better competition. If that doesn't prove Michkov's development is in good hands I don't know what does.

Edit: My favorite quote from that interview

“Matvei Michkov at rank number five is a steal. If he played in the CHL, he would come out first or second in that auction. If he ends up outside the top three, it will be an incredible opportunity for other teams to add a world-class player to their roster...in a place where there usually isn't one."
7 juin 2023 à 9 h 44
#23
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I won’t lie, I would hate to lose Nemec because I think the kid is seriously legit but this offer is extremely intriguing. Barron is fine replacement for the 3rd pair and the chance to draft Michkov really excites me. I think the Devils are more than willing to wait for him to come over and add him in to an already stacked roster down the road. Very, very, interesting idea he Devils would 100% at least have to consider.
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7 juin 2023 à 9 h 48
#24
Dougie HIMilton
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I (idk about the devils) accept without question. Thank you for Carlsson/Smith/Michkovsmile
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7 juin 2023 à 9 h 52
#25
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Quoting: GMBL
He was asked in his draft interviews if he thinks he could play C in the NHL and I think he said yes. I'm thinking he could pull it off with enough determination and leeway.


When the hiring manager asks me if I can do "x", I say "absolutely with enough determination and leeway"
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