You can't just put a guy on LTIR cuz he sucks lol.

Why would you even be close to ready to write off POJ? He's had a fantastic season

I'm ready to write off Petry and Jarry. Petry I think can be a fine defenseman on the right team, but he is just not a good fit for how we play. He makes way way way too much for his production. And our biggest weakness is lack of mobility on D. We need to get more mobile and getting rid of that contract would allow us to replace him with a better skater. Nothing against him, seems like a good guy and is definitely a good player, but just not what we need going forward. Jarry apparently wants 6 x 6. If that's his asking price or anything close than we should find a new goalie. I mean I probably would anyways just cause he hasn't really proven anything and has been hurt a lot/not elevated his play in important moments. Only way I'd be okay with him returning is on a 1 maybe 2 year prove it deal, which I don't think he will. POJ I think has been fine overall, but I wouldn't say he's 100% untouchable. I would explore what we could get for him.

I think POJ is a fine player, but I wouldn't say he's proven himself completely yet as a regular for the lineup. He's looked good against smaller, less physical teams, but has struggled very bad against the more physical ones like last night.

My guy, even though Carter sucks, you can’t just through him on LTIR. (Long Term injured reserve)

I mean that's just a bit crazy though don't ya think lol? What does he have to do then? He has a 58% GF%. His numbers are great across the board. I find it kind of weird how Pens fans always have to pick one player to overreact to. Desmith has started to pick up his play so know we've moved on to POJ. He's played great for 60 games - has 1 bad turnover and now he's not even cut out to be a regular starter. That's a bit ridiculous in my opinion. He didn't even play bad yesterday - he had a 55% xGF. It was one bad turnover on a crap pass from Carter.

I'm not picking on him. He's been really good at times. He also has areas where he can improve. I think that's very fair. He has good mobility and generates offense, but has been physically outmatched by a lot of teams we've played. If he gets stronger and focuses in that area in the offseason I think he can be a very solid 2nd pair player. I don't think that's an unfair assessment at all.

I don’t want anything to do with Miller since that extension was signed. I’d also let Jarry walk. Doubtful Dilaberatore & Maniscalco are qualified, they’re ECHL defensemen. Dil was only a contract dump for Vegas, he’s not a prospect.

Sure you can. Teams do it all the time. A player wants to retire but doesn't want to give up the cash. A team doesn't want a player or his cap hit bit doesn't care about the money. It happens a lot.

No dude, you can’t.

LTIR is used when a player is expected to miss a minimum of 10 NHL games and 24 days in the NHL season. If a player does miss this amount of time, the team can put them on LTIR.

You can’t just put a player on LTIR because he sucks.

Name me one player who wasn’t injured but just sucked and was placed on LTIR.

It's more than just you - I wasn't trying to specifically just call you out or anything.

It's fair to point out where he needs to improve, sure. I'm not arguing against that. But there's a giant difference between "this player can improve in this area" and "this guy hasn't proven himself as an NHL player yet". These aren't the same thing - you can't use them interchangeably. The first one is fair, the second one is just wrong. Also, he had a 60% Corsi and 55% xGF in this game - wouldn't call that struggling

No - you can't. And no - they don't. And no - it doesn't happen a lot. I feel like you're arguing a different point. My point is his cap hit stays. You can't just throw him on LTIR to get out from his cap hit. That's never happened - because you can't do it. If Carter retires his cap hit stays because it's a 35+ contract. If you want to say Carter retires in your ACGM, that's fine, but you have to leave him on the roster for cap hit purposes

Marian Hossa
Shea Weber
Andrew Ladd
Bryan Little
Ben Bishop
Ryan Ellis
And those are just the current guys on LTIR who will never play again due to injuries and "injuries"

None of these are the same situation. You can't just throw Carter on LTIR and get out from under his cap hit. It's just not possible. He's not injured, and has a 35+ contract with a NMC. Our only shot at getting rid of his cap hit is by some miracle he approves a trade or someone breaks his legs

So you're an NHL player that no longer belongs in the NHL. You're too old and have lost too much. The GM says you can either retire, go on LTIR or the AHL. If you retire, you lose the millions you're due. Your pride (and want to avoid hanging out with kids 15 years your junior) rule out the AHL. So you go on LTIR. The team saves a cap hit and you get paid. Win-win.

Do you really think the players listed above are so hurt they could never return? Or are they so hurt they wouldn't be good enough if they returned, so the GM says what is written above.

If you honestly believe this doesn't happen, there is a bridge in Alaska that I'd like to sell you. It's a great deal!

Okay, first off - the player says "FU I'm playing" to the GM. Secondly, you can't just go on LTIR lol - there's actually rules to this stuff.

It's hilarious that your being condescending while being factually incorrect. Carter's cap hit isn't going anywhere man - just deal with it. You can't just throw him on LTIR haha

Oh, I wasn't trying to be condescending. More playful. This is, IMO, a friendly debate.

Do you disagree with the players above? Do you think Weber can never play again or just never play again at an NHL level?

There are rules about a lot if things. Doesn't mean teams don't work around it (looking at you TB and Kucherov).

Also, a player can't tell a GM, "FU I'm playing". They will get demoted to the AHL. If they don't report, they don't get paid. Trying telling your boss FU and see how that works out for you.

I can understand what you're saying but I don't think you're giving the GMs and players the right context or credit. The players want paid, the GMs and owners want to win. Literally no one wants the LTIR loopholes closed.

No it's all good we're on the same page haha. I'm not actually mad, I was just doing the same thing - returning the favor if you will.

So Weber actually got injured. And doesn't have a 35+ contract. And again - Kucherov was actually hurt.

If Carter gets demoted to the AHL his cap hit stays - the full cap hit. Right, I didn't mean he can literally decide if he's playing or not - by playing I meant he doesn't have to retire. And without an injury he can't go to LTIR. Sure they can demote him to the AHL, but my point here is you aren't getting rid of his cap hit. If he's demoted it stays.

And I get what you're saying, but you can't just throw a guy on LTIR because he sucks. If they could - it would have been done already. And because it's a 35+ contract with full NMC, they can't demote him to get out from under his cap hit. So unless he somehow breaks both his legs this season or in the offseason - they're stuck with him

Right but he plays in the NHL which means he's always a little hurt. Those guys play through a lot. It is a very real scenario where at the season's end he has a minor surgery or talks about playing through this or that injury and next season is unable to play. Goes on LTIR, gets paid and unofficially retires.

You're right his cap hit remains in the AHL but he doesn't want to do that. So he won't actually go there.

Kucherov was hurt but it wasn't coincidence he was finally able to return in game 1 of the playoffs. He probably could have played the last month of the regular season but then TB would be over the cap.

I wouldn't say it's a very real scenario haha. If he does actually get hurt, has surgery, and legitimately can't or doesn't want to play again, then sure - you might be right. But you have a better chance of winning the lottery lol.

What do you mean he doesn't want to do that and won't go there? You just said he has to. The only other option is retire, in which case his cap hit still counts

Difference in opinion then. I can see Carter unofficially retiring as a very real possibility.

Right. If he is demoted his options are to not report or retire. Either way he doesn't get paid. Why would Carter give up $3MM? He would rather talk about a real injury he has (that he could probably play through) but instead 'must' go on LTIR.

If you were Carter and were told your three options were:
1.) Retire and lose 3MM
2.) Get demoted and play in the AHL
3.) Talk about a real injury you have and play it up some so you go on LTIR and get paid to sit at home.

Are you really not going to choose option #3?

If he retires his cap hit stays though.

You're assuming he has a real injury that doesn't allow him to play. You actually have to be injured to go on LTIR. No - in my opinion I think if Pens management says they're sending him to the AHL then he retires - and the cap hit stays. But we all know he's staying on the roster anyways.

EDIT: Totally forgot NMC's don't allow him to even go to the AHL anyways haha - we both missed that one

Ha ha. Yes we did. But if he retires it hurts the Pens and Carter (since the cap hit stays and he doesn't get paid).

I'm not assuming he has a real injury and can't play. I'm assuming he has some sort of injury (most NHLers have something at season's end) and that he uses that to go on LTIR.

Right - which is why I don't think he will retire. Not only does he enjoy playing but he probably doesn't want to give up 3mil.

A lot of people do have injuries you're right, but there are actual qualifications to be put on LTIR. You have to miss actual NHL season time, not just offseason. I just think you're making it sound way easier than it actually is. t's not as easy as him just comin out after the season's over and saying I pulled my hammy and be put on LTIR for the rest of his contract.

I don't think it's hard. All he has to do is get a surgery or have a condition that inhibits his play. He had leg surgery in 2017 and muscle core surgery in 2020. Who's to say one of these injuries doesn't return and prohibit his play next season?

It's extremely hard lol. The day that happens we should all play the lottery.