I'd want a 2023 1st also take out the 4th

Caps pass. They don't need Horvat, they are stacked at center. And if they really wanted him they'd just wait until the summer to sign him for free.

Doesn't seem like this is a fit at all lol. A top four defenseman, first round pick and solid D prospect for a 2C isn't close whatsoever

Yeah Caps pass.

I mean Horvat is a 30 goal scorer and plays a solid two way game with a very good Fo%. He'd be a 1C on a lot of teams, but the Canucks have Elias Pettersson.

With Bäckström and Wilson out, they kinda need to bolster their offense, I can see them doing something similar to the Mantha trade to do so.

And the Caps have Kuznetsov and Strome as their current top six Cs, with Eller at 3C and McMichael capable of playing down the middle as well. There's absolutely no reason to create a whole in the lineup to make a surplus of centers

I don't see how Dylan Strome can be a top 6 center on a contending team, but I get the second part.

You can keep Jensen if you want. A 1st and an okay prospect is not a crazy ask. Let's not act like Iorio is the second coming of Makar lol

Wouldn't trade Jensen for Horvat straight up. He's cracked 60 points once ...

yeah, and he's also 27, and has scored 20 goals in 5/6 of his last season (he had 19 in 56 during the 20-21 season). he's coming off a 31 goal season in 70 games, aka a 36 goal 61 point pace, has a career 13% shooting percentage and a career 54% face off rate. he's currently scoring at a 47 goal, 70 point pace despite his team being absolute garbage and the only reason he doesn't have a 40 goal season yet is covid and injuries. you're seriously saying you wouldn't trade a 32 year old defensive defenseman who's probably leaving in free agency for a young two way center with 40 goal potential

if you're gonna act like an idiot, do it somewhere else my guy

1) Jensen is much more than a "defensive defenseman" and would easily be the second best D man on the canucks and by far their best RD

https://twitter.com/dicnowder/status/1584706985517539328?s=20&t=Ylc9-0giRd96auzgqa-UDA

2) Marcus Johansson and Conor Sheary are also currently scoring at ~45 goal 70 point paces, and I don't expect them to return a 1st +. If we want to talk about scoring rates though, then it makes no sense for the Caps to replace their current 2c, a career .62 ppg player who is younger and going to make a lot less with a career .64 ppg player.

3) 27 is not young, especially for a forward, and I would only expect Horvat to decline from here rather than get better

Bad comp for a trade. Mantha for Vrana +2nd was the actual deal made with the 1st being to dump Panik (as reported by Freidman). In reality, I wouldn't deal Jensen for Horvat. Washington already has their top 2 centers for the long haul, with Kuzy locked up with term and Strome playing quite well and being an RFA, Horvat isn't a need at the moment whereas losing Jensen would leave a massive hole at RD and would leave the Caps without arguably their best defenseman. While he is on an expiring deal, there is no reason for him to leave currently as he's getting quality minutes and has great chemistry with other guys on the team, particularly Dowd and Sheary.

Asking for a top 4 RD, a Top 4 RHD prospect in Iorio, and a 1st would be far to much for a Capitals team that has more pressing needs than a 2C on an expiring contract when Brown, Strome, Orlov, Fehervary, and others will need payment come July. Perhaps another team would be foolish enough to pay that much, but the Capitals are not that team.

1. So Horvat only having one 60 point season means he's garbage, but Jensen is an offensive dynamo after only one 20 point season and a decent start this year? I sense some suspect motives in your arguments

2. MoJo is scoring at a 23 goal pace, don't think you can slip that kind of stuff by me. Both of them are also 30+ and have little to no history of consistent top-6 level offence, by your own rules they're both irrelevant to this discussion. Dylan Strome has started well, but is more of a 3C caliber center. Sure he could have a career year, but is that really something a contender wants to rely upon? Also, this discussion isn't really about whether the trade suits either team anymore, you made it about comparing Jensen to Horvat, which is why you're currently being eviscerated.

3. 27 is a lot younger than 32, and nowadays most forwards of his caliber continue to improve up until at least 28-29, and can stay in their primes even into their early to mid 30s. I mean look at Pavelski, he was a point per game player last season and just put up a hat trick, and he's 38. Not saying Horvat's gonna become a 50 goal scorer and stay their into his 40s, but there's no reason to think he won't continue at a 30 goal 60 pt level until his early 30s.


Just stop trying to win this. You say Jensen is more than a defensive defenseman for his veeery minimal sample size of offense, but you don't think Horvat's a goal scorer for the same reason. You think 27 is old, but ignore the fact that Jensen is 32, pretending he's not at a way larger risk of declining. You would absolutely, given the chance, trade Jensen for Horvat, it's that simple.

The only way we're trading for Horvat is if Vancouver is taking Eller. Also Iorio really impressed the organization in training camp, and it looks like the team is higher on him than before. So good luck prying him out of Washington.

Did you even look at the link I posted with Jensen???? He is not an "offensive defenseman" in terms of racking up points like a Carlson, Hughes, or Josi, but he is much more than just a defensive defenseman as well, tilting the ice to an elite degree for his entire time on the caps as well as his last couple of years in Detroit. Like I said, Jensen would instantly become the Canucks' 2nd best defenseman by a pretty significant margin. As for 27 being old, by literally every single metric NHL forwards peak at age 24 (here's another link you can read if you really are more interested https://hockeyviz.com/static/pdf/ritsac19.pdf). For every Pavelski or Ovechkin there are 10 guys like Lucic, Lee, Okposo, Hayes, JVR, etc.. Horvat is a good offensive player, but has neither the track record nor the runway to improve to be a meaningful upgrade over Strome this year for the Caps. Giving up their 3rd best defenseman and immediately creating a massive hole on the 2nd pairing is in no ways worth that marginal upgrade.

Who said Iorio was the second coming of Makar? All I said was that he's a solid D prospect, which he is. A first and Iorio is a fine deal value wise for Hornet. I don't think it's something the Caps would do from a team needs standpoint, but the value is there definitely

You realise most of those guys not only had their peaks after 24, were either very physical players or injury prone, and are mostly considered outliers, right? I realise Pavelski is also an outlier, I even mentioned that in my post. I'm not expecting Horvat to have decades of his prime left, but the whole "peak at 24" thing is not universal, and can't really be used well when talking about one specific player. A better way to look at it is to compare him to similar players and look at his own progressio.. oh wait, why are you even dragging me into this stupid argument?

You're intentionally dodging the point and moving the goalpost... Once again going on about Jensens importance and how Horvat is gonna become an AHL'er next year because of analytics, but Jensen is never ever ever gonna fall of a cliff and is just gonna keep being this elite two way defenseman you've somehow turned him into forever. Just stop and think about what you're actually saying.

You would rather have Nick Jensen, who I admit is a good defensive defenseman, than Bo Horvat. I get you have your own personal biases as a Caps fan, but Jesus, you have to realise what a stupid argument you're actually making, right? I don't really care what rationalisations you decide to use, they're all pretty easy to disprove, given the chance anyone would trade Nick Jensen for Bo Horvat

Did you not read the last part of my post?



There is the very explicit reason why I would not give up Jensen for Horvat straight up.