Going for it all but at a cost

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Créé par: HockeyScotty

Équipe: 2022-23 Islanders de New York

Date de création initiale: 3 août 2022

Publié: 7 août 2022

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

Barzal returns to his B.C. roots in a swap for JT Miller, partial retention, and future draft picks. He is the better player in the deal; both have 1 year left on deals but Barzal is also RFA; hence the return.
NYI get a top line player and more affordable contract.

Then trade LW with Detroit straight up with Bertuzzi for Beauvillier who has 2 years of team control as is younger; thus the partial retention on that deal as well. Detroit gets younger and has an asset under team control for 2 years.

Then the UFA signing of Kadri comes in to complete the roster and playoff hopes renew in Long Island. The identity of this whole team is hard work, 200' game, and can roll out 3 scoring lines along with the grinders. Keep the goalie duo intact to ensure a deep playoff run is in the cards.

Miller and Bertuzzi extensions can get paid for by Varlamov's contract coming off next year then a new backup goalie can be found in the $1-2 million range.

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

LISTE DE RÉSERVE		ANS	CAP HIT
Cockerill, Logan		2	750 000 $
Mirageas, Ben		2	750 000 $

RFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Dobson, Noah	6	5 000 000 $
Romanov, Alexander	3	2 500 000 $
Bellows, Kieffer	2	850 000 $
Durandeau, Arnaud	2	825 000 $
Wotherspoon, Parker	1	825 000 $

UFA		ANS	CAP HIT
Kadri, Nazem		7	6 750 000 $

Transactions

NYI

Bertuzzi, Tyler (1 500 000 $ retained)

DET

Beauvillier, Anthony

NYI

Miller, J.T. (1 250 000 $ retained)
Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (VAN)
Choix de 2e ronde en 2025 (VAN)

VAN

Barzal, Mathew

Rachats de contrats

Rick DiPietro: 0 $

Enfoui

Richard Pánik: 250 000 $ (1 375 000 $)
Kieffer Bellows: 0 $ (850 000 $)

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2023
2024
2025

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
23	82 500 000 $	80 089 963 $	245 796 $	1 287 500 $	2 410 037 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Miller, J.T. 4 000 000 $4 000 000 $ C, AG, AD UFA - 1	Kadri, Nazem 6 750 000 $6 750 000 $ C UFA - 7	Bailey, Josh 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ AD, AG, C UFA - 2
Lee, Anders 7 000 000 $7 000 000 $ AG NTC UFA - 4	Nelson, Brock 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ C, AG M-NTC UFA - 3	Palmieri, Kyle 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ AD, AG NTC UFA - 3
Bertuzzi, Tyler 875 000 $875 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1	Pageau, Jean-Gabriel 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ C M-NTC UFA - 4	Wahlstrom, Oliver 894 167 $894 167 $ (537 500 $$538K) AD RFA - 1
Martin, Matt 1 500 000 $1 500 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2	Cizikas, Casey 2 500 000 $2 500 000 $ C UFA - 5	Clutterbuck, Cal 1 750 000 $1 750 000 $ AD UFA - 2
Parise, Zach 750 000 $750 000 $ (750 000 $$750K) AG UFA - 1		Johnston, Ross 1 100 000 $1 100 000 $ AG UFA - 4

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Pelech, Adam 5 750 000 $5 750 000 $ DG NTC UFA - 7	Pulock, Ryan 6 150 000 $6 150 000 $ DD NTC UFA - 8	Varlamov, Semyon 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ G M-NTC UFA - 1
Romanov, Alexander 2 500 000 $2 500 000 $ DG RFA - 3	Dobson, Noah 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ DD RFA - 3	Sorokin, Ilya 4 000 000 $4 000 000 $ G UFA - 2
Aho, Sebastian 825 000 $825 000 $ DG UFA - 2	Mayfield, Scott 1 450 000 $1 450 000 $ DD UFA - 1
Salo, Robin 800 000 $800 000 $ DG UFA - 2

7 août 2022 à 3 h 12

#26

Islesforthecup

Rejoint: nov. 2020

Messages: 4,901

Mentions "j'aime": 1,406

Modifié 7 août 2022 à 3 h 18

Quoting: theleano1

Scoring wise no, Having Tavers on that years team really helped him score 85, he is about an 80 point guy though, Rob schremp's opinion really has little value lmao

He didnt play with JT they played on different lines. He played 2C as a rookie and scored 85. The idea that he isnt a 90-100 point player in an offensive system with decent linemates is crazy. You just admitted that playing with a guy who was a star at that point but didnt even play on the same line accounted for 20 extra points so why do you think if he gets a legit 1st line winger he wont be a 90-100 point player. Not to mention hes certainly gotten better since his rookie season he was a damn teenager when he did that.
Edit: His rookie season he was 20yo.

As for schremp i think his opinion might count for just a little more than yours.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 18

#27

Islesforthecup

Rejoint: nov. 2020

Messages: 4,901

Mentions "j'aime": 1,406

Quoting: theleano1

a team that reached the ECF should not be brining down a players point totals by 30-40 points

Thats a crazy idea. The team could be successful but his offensive production goes down i dont see why those 2 are mutually exclusive. How do you explain his rookie season if not that better teammates (who werent on the same line) and a more offensive system gave him 20 more points as a rookie. Now give him 1st line minutes instead of 2nd and put that great player on his line add in his growth and experience and tell me how that doesnt get him 10-15 more points.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 19

#28

theleano1

PDG over PDO

Rejoint: févr. 2020

Messages: 5,053

Mentions "j'aime": 4,104

Quoting: Islesforthecup

He didnt play with JT they played on different lines. He played 2C as a rookie and scored 85. The idea that he isnt a 90-100 point player in an offensive system with decent linemates is crazy. You just admitted that playing with a guy who was a star at that point but didnt even play on the same line accounted for 20 extra points so why do you think if he gets a legit 1st line winger he wont be a 90-100 point player. Not to mention hes certainly gotten better since his rookie season he was a damn teenager when he did that.

As for schremp i think his opinion might count for just a little more than yours.

Taveres was a top 10 center in the league when he was with the isles, if the isels were able to get a top 5 winger to play with him sure, Taveres being #1C lets Barzal feed on worse competition, also Barzal played on the power play with Tavers that year The isles also played a offensive system that year as well, Barzal's draft comparsion was Grouix which seems about right, a guy that was a 70-80 point guy in most of his prime, i am not saying he will never hit 80 again, i think he does how ever he isn't a 90-100 point player

Knuckl3s a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 21

#29

islesadist

Islesadist

Rejoint: mars 2018

Messages: 1,100

Mentions "j'aime": 282

Quoting: theleano1

A 29 year old that put up 40 more points than him

If Barzal got traded for Miller and a first, almost every Canuck fan would be estatic, every islander fan would be pissed, and every reporter and pundit would destroy Lou for making one of the worst trades in NHL history

7 août 2022 à 3 h 21

#30

theleano1

PDG over PDO

Rejoint: févr. 2020

Messages: 5,053

Mentions "j'aime": 4,104

Quoting: Islesforthecup

Because typically if your line mates are that bad they are dragging you from 90 points to 49 the Team probably isn't good enough to go on a run

Knuckl3s a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 23

#31

theleano1

PDG over PDO

Rejoint: févr. 2020

Messages: 5,053

Mentions "j'aime": 4,104

Quoting: islesadist

Adding a 99 point player plus a pick in the late teens in one of the deepest drafts for a guy that is a best a lateral move for the Canucks makes zero sense, i am not saying Barzal is not good i am saying there is zero reason for us to make this trade, i don't think many canuck fans would be pleased trading another 1st along with Miller to get a player that fills no needs

Knuckl3s a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 26

#32

islesadist

Islesadist

Rejoint: mars 2018

Messages: 1,100

Mentions "j'aime": 282

Quoting: theleano1

I'm sorry but you're wrong. You have an extremely odd opinion that does not reflect what most fans and general manager want on their team, which is cost controlled high end talent between the ages of 18-27. 29 year old UFAs that have great years are nice pieces to add but Barzal is worth much more

Db1899 a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 30

#33

Islesforthecup

Rejoint: nov. 2020

Messages: 4,901

Mentions "j'aime": 1,406

Quoting: theleano1

His draft comparison ffs he was drafted 16oa. You cant seriously be relying on pre draft scouting to form your opinion on a guy who has already played 5 full seasons.
As for the worst competition argument his linemates were also worse. But i meant 1st line minutes in terms of sheer number of minutes.
Barzal doesnt need a top 5 winger to be a 90 point player. All he needs is a real 1st line winger. The added 5v5 production bc of this winger should at least make up for the loss of pp production from the difference of 2018 tavares to this winger. And then you add in more total minutes than 17-18 and his natural development from a 20yo and i really dont see why he would be anything less than a 90 point player.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 38

#34

Islesforthecup

Rejoint: nov. 2020

Messages: 4,901

Mentions "j'aime": 1,406

Quoting: theleano1

Because typically if your line mates are that bad they are dragging you from 90 points to 49 the Team probably isn't good enough to go on a run

That is intentionally misleading. The 2 years they went to the ECFs were shortened seasons. He was on pace for 72 the 1st year (60 in 68) and 67 the 2nd year (45 in 55). Going from 85 to 72 or 67 considering the system change from a very offensive system to one of the most defense oriented systems in the league isnt crazy at all. And it can easily be seen as the sole reason for the decrease in point production.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 43

#35

Juiceman

Ex Nucks fan

Rejoint: juin 2021

Messages: 17,615

Mentions "j'aime": 17,624

Quoting: KooKoo4Kaapo

I couldn't imagine Vancouver being in a playoff spot and moving him. Regardless of the contract situation. I feel that's just a spit in the fans faces.

You can’t imagine it but management clearly can. They publicly stated that if they can’t get an extension done, they WILL make a non-emotional decision to trade him for assets that will help our future. Those were almost the exact words Jim Ruthford said

Knuckl3s a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 44

#36

Juiceman

Ex Nucks fan

Rejoint: juin 2021

Messages: 17,615

Mentions "j'aime": 17,624

Quoting: islesadist

I like Barzal but the 2023 first is an absolute no go. Trading Miller and a first for a forward would be a kick in the nuts after all the management has said about improving defense

Knuckl3s et theleano1 a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 48

#37

islesadist

Islesadist

Rejoint: mars 2018

Messages: 1,100

Mentions "j'aime": 282

Quoting: Juiceman

I like Barzal but the 2023 first is an absolute no go. Trading Miller and a first for a forward would be a kick in the nuts after all the management has said about improving defense

lol oh man

Db1899 a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 3 h 53

#38

HockeyScotty

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: juin 2022

Messages: 1,374

Mentions "j'aime": 963

I'm tempted to call this ACGM a "win" since both teams hate it!

Defense is few and far between so how Vancouver improves their D doesn't have to be the sole reason for every trade. This trade was designed to help both teams: Canucks get elite offense with term. Islanders retain elite talent, futures, and free up cap space for Kadri.

7 août 2022 à 5 h 52

#39

Juiceman

Ex Nucks fan

Rejoint: juin 2021

Messages: 17,615

Mentions "j'aime": 17,624

Quoting: islesadist

lol oh man

Can you give me justification how trading for Barzal makes our team better? Offense isn’t our problem, defense js

theleano1 a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 6 h 15

#40

theleano1

PDG over PDO

Rejoint: févr. 2020

Messages: 5,053

Mentions "j'aime": 4,104

Quoting: Islesforthecup

Even at 67 and 68 points he is well off the 90 point total adding better wingers might make up an extra 15 points he still has away quite a ways away from him being a 90 point player almost everything would have to be perfect for it to happen

7 août 2022 à 6 h 18

#41

theleano1

PDG over PDO

Rejoint: févr. 2020

Messages: 5,053

Mentions "j'aime": 4,104

Quoting: islesadist

It would make sense if it was position of need sure, spending that many assets to make a lateral move because the other player is 3 years younger isn't the best strategy, i get Miller is an UFA but Barzal only has 1 year of RFA status left, it's not that big of a difference to warrant spending that many assets

7 août 2022 à 8 h 11

#42

mikearky

arky

Rejoint: août 2016

Messages: 6,715

Mentions "j'aime": 4,341

Modifié 7 août 2022 à 11 h 50

Wings say Thanks but No Thanks. Wings have the cap to resign Bertuzzi. He scored 30 goals so we take a player who scored 18 less goals and retain cap? This helps Islanders cap and kind of screws Wings in the process.

aedoran a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 8 h 32

#43

carbonxe

Carbon

Rejoint: juill. 2017

Messages: 173

Mentions "j'aime": 48

Kadri at $6.75m ain't happening. He wants $9m+.

7 août 2022 à 8 h 53

#44

aedoran

Rejoint: déc. 2017

Messages: 21,717

Mentions "j'aime": 12,055

Quoting: mikearky

Wings say Thanks but No Thanks. Wings have the cap to resign Bertuzzi. He scored 3p goals so we take a player who scored 28 less goals and retain cap? This helps Islanders cap and kind of screws Wings in the process.

Bertuzzi has 1 more point in 132 less games.

7 août 2022 à 10 h 6

#45

Islesforthecup

Rejoint: nov. 2020

Messages: 4,901

Mentions "j'aime": 1,406

Quoting: theleano1

I bring up it because it's another insiders opinion kinda like Rob schremp's so if you add a real top winger with barazl it takes him back to 80 points? I am not sure him being a year older means he is guarenteed to get an extra 10 points, Lambars system could be a complete dud and have him regress

Even at 67 and 68 points he is well off the 90 point total adding better wingers might make up an extra 15 points he still has away quite a ways away from him being a 90 point player almost everything would have to be perfect for it to happen

Ill go in reverse order here, the system alone gives him 10-15 points and better linemates should account for another 10. Add in natural progression and more total minutes and youre talking about a 90 point player.

Lamberts system ismt an offensive system. He was one of the primary architects of the trotz system thats not gonna change. The system in NYI is gonna be the exact same as the last 4 years.
Also my issue with using pre draft scouting is that draft scouting is trying to project what he will be as a player against tougher competition at higher levels. Schremp knows and sees what barzal is at the nhl level and was saying that hes in a situation thats not good for him (system/linemates) and is really a better player than his numbers might suggest.

7 août 2022 à 10 h 14

#46

Islesforthecup

Rejoint: nov. 2020

Messages: 4,901

Mentions "j'aime": 1,406

Quoting: islesadist

Quoting: theleano1

You are both talking about 2 different discussions, and id venture to say youre both right.
@islesadist is talking about pure value while @theleano1 is talking about fit.
It doesnt make any sense for NYI to make this deal bc theyre not getting enough value at all for barzal.
On the other hand it doesnt make any sense for VAN to move good futures for talent that they dont need as theyre really deep at C. Its like if the isles moved raty and a 1st for a RHD.
Just my opinion hope it clears things up

Warpbox et theleano1 a aimé ceci.

7 août 2022 à 10 h 17

#47

Warpbox

Rejoint: juill. 2022

Messages: 3,126

Mentions "j'aime": 2,235

Quoting: KooKoo4Kaapo

🤣 turning down Barzal for Miller, who you're going too loose and a first? I mean, come on dude.

Did you see the Canucks last year? We're not giving up a shot at Bedard for a currently worse (More valuable but currently isn't as good) player when we have no prospects

7 août 2022 à 11 h 39

#48

Db1899

Rejoint: août 2021

Messages: 15,040

Mentions "j'aime": 12,102

Quoting: theleano1

Barzal has also played on a team that reached the ECF in back to back years, yes Miller has Better Teammates how ever not to the point where its a 40 point swing

Barzal singlehandedly carried the isles to the ECF

7 août 2022 à 11 h 43

#49

Db1899

Rejoint: août 2021

Messages: 15,040

Mentions "j'aime": 12,102

Quoting: theleano1

It's the fact Vancouver is already extremely deep at Center if it was 1 for 1 i'd do it but once we start adding more high quality pieces it makes very little sense to do it, if it was for Dobson it's a different story

Barzal is likely a 70-80 point guy i highly doubt he has a 40 point swing with a more offensive system, Miller has broken out since has played in Vancouver if this trade was 3 years ago sure it gets laughed out of the room, how ever it's not, Miller's value to day is of a 99 point 2 way power foward center that plays at every end of the ice, like i said i'd do the trade 1 for 1, wouldn't add too it, just makes zero sense from our pov

JT miller sucks defensively, let’s not spew lies

7 août 2022 à 11 h 43

#50

Db1899

Rejoint: août 2021

Messages: 15,040

Mentions "j'aime": 12,102

Quoting: theleano1

Scoring wise no, Having Tavers on that years team really helped him score 85, he is about an 80 point guy though, Rob schremp's opinion really has little value lmao

Barzal never played with Tavares , but good try

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