makes you think if MAYYYYBBBBEEEEEEEE he is part of the problem huh?

Lets be honest, Holl is not a decent #4 guy. He gets exposed when not paired with a healthy Muzzin as seen last year and this year. Would he be a practical guy on the bottom pair who can kill penalties and chip it off the glass and out? sure, Top 4 guy, no

except that he is. that is what an average number 4 defender is. A guy who can play 2nd pair but not carry the pairing. Ideally you have that guy on your bottom pairing because you have an incredible top 4 like tampa or carolina, but that is not normal for teams around the league

Skinner is better than Hart his year, he's younger and cheaper too. Zero chance they add Holloway to deal.

He’s not a big top 4 guy though. He was put into a situation where he was carried by a guy who is top 4 worthy. Too 4 D aren’t ‘just guys’. Even teams who aren’t top 5 have better options than Justin Holl at 4 D. There’s a reason he’s a healthy scratch right now.

yes, they are though. Holl is what an average top 4 guy is. that is literally what he is. if you go over all 32 teams and tacked up their 4th best defender he'd be smack dab in the middle.

I wouldnt trade skinner 1 for 1 much less add holloway.

Anaheim - Shattenkirk, Manson > Holl
Calgary - Tanev, Andersson > Holl
Edmonton - Bouchard, Holl > Barrie
LA - Doughty, Durzi/Walker > Holl
SJ - Burns, Karlsson > Holl
Seattle- Larsson Holl > Soucey
Vancouver - Myers, Hamonic > Holl
Vegas - Pietrangelo, Theodore (playing RD currently) > Holl

Arizona - Strahlman, Holl > Mayo
Chicago - Jones,Murphy > Holl
Colorado - Makar, Girard > Holl
Dallas - Klingberg, Heiskenan > Holl
Minnesota - Spurgeon, Holl > Kulikov
Nashville - Holl, Meyers > Fabbro
St. Louis - Paryako, Faulk > Holl
Winnipeg - Pionk, Demelo > Holl

Carolina - Pesce, Bear > Holl
Columbus - Holl, Peeke > Boqvist
NJ - Severson, Subban > Holl
NYI - Pulock, Mayfield > Holl
NYR - Fox, Trouba > Holl
Philly -
Pitts - Letang, Marino > Holl
Washington - Carlson, Schultz > Holl

Boston - Mccavoy, Carlo > Holl
Buffalo - I think this one is pretty even throughout
Detroit - Seider, Hronek > Holl
Florida - Ekblad, Weegar > Holl
Montreal - Petry, Savard > Holl (not by a ton though)
Ottawa - Zub, Holl > Zaitsev
Tampa - Sergachev, Cernak > Holl


So definitely not smack dab in the middle. And on a number of teams he doesnt crack the Top 6

He's better than a lot of the guys you mentioned bettet than him. Myers, straleman etc and limiting it to rd defies the point because it's about being a number 4 not a top 2 rd. So i repeat, he's what you get with a 4th defender

I’m not a Holl fan but I’d take him in a heartbeat over Schultz

I respect the commitment here and agree w/ the premise

Definite no to the Colorado trade and no, most people don't prefer Braun unless it's their make of toothbrush!