Beaulieu is the jets worst defender by far and Lyubushkin is the coyotes 6th defender and the leafs are better defensively than both teams by a significant margin. how does this help?

Unless we get one of Klingberg or Severson there is no point in getting a defenceman beyond a better #8 than Biega or Dahlstrom

This is not true Lyubushkin has played alot against other teams best players and has put up impressive analytical numbers. There is a break down on YouTube on him. He would most certainly be an upgrade on Holl. Beaulieu is a depth move and has much more NHL experience then Dahlstrom. Dahlstom is not a top 8 NHL defenceman yet and his NHL games/numbers prove this. Im almost positive these are the types of depth deals Dubas will be doing come the deadline.

no, it's true. He is literally 6th in ice time for Coyotes D and the only defender they have who plays with more than 13 games played is Kyle copacobano. His defensive numbers are actually pretty darned bad and he has worse relative numbers to the guys he plays with.
Sure he plays a lot on the PK, but Arizona also has the 2nd worse PK in the league.
He is not very good, and he is certainly not an upgrade on Holl

We have a difference in philosophy then. I think Klingberg and Severson are the opposite of what the Leafs need. I believe they need an upgrade on Holl and Lyubushkin is most certainly that, the analytics prove this and depth. Beaulieu has more NHL experience and is a physical player. I simply trust him more then Dalhstom. I think the Leafs need to do almost exactly what they did last year and add depth and depth and more depth. Another goalie would be nice aswell

I dont agree.

you dont agree with what? the fact that he puts up bad numbers on a bad team yet his team mates all put up better numbers with out him?
Or that Justin Holl is part of a top 5 defence and top 3 PK in the league?
because those are facts, and if you disagree with the fact that the guy who is by all accounts better simply because you saw a couple plays you didnt like, well i dunno what to tell you

I didnt trade Holl, hes in my starting lineup. Whe i say "i dont agree" its about you saying his defensive numbers are bad. As i said there is a breakdown on youtube of him in reference to a Possible Leaf trade connection. It breaks his numbers down. I personaly believe these are the types of deals that make the Leafs a better team

Well, if you believe a random youtube video that says a 6th defender on a bad team is good enough to be a top 4 guy on a good team, power to you, because that's a long long looooong bet

I agree on more depth but I also think most defenceman people see as better than Holl aren't better. He's very underrated and at this point his detractors just look for mistakes. Much like Rielly haters will ignore 100 things he does a game that are just terrific but point out 1 mistake to prove he isn't as good as leaf fans think he is. Some slow footed, big, stay at home defender who can't handle the puck or keep possession isn't going to do well in Keefe's system. Last year Bogosian just took it to centre and dumped it in all the time. He was by far the worst defender on the team. I would definitely upgrade Holl but this doesn't upgrade, it could very easily be a terrible fit. Muzzin benefits when his partner can move the puck and skate.

I dont agree. I thought Bogosian was playing great down the stretch last year and then injured his shoulder just before playoffs. Sandin and Dermott were both liabilities against the habs. They struggled under heavy forecheck pressure. I also disagree eith ehat you say Muzzin needs with him. I think he would be better with a stay at home big dman Manson, Mayfield , Shenn types. I also think Holl may complement Sandins game however i dont trust it and would like to see the team aquire protection for this problem in case it happens again in the playoffs. I want to see the coach have two or three #4 #5#6 dman lineup options and the same goes for the bottom 6 fwd group

Those stay at home guys aren't good at puck possession. They don't work in a system like TO plays

So maybe thats the problem with our disagreement. The system must change. The players that excel in the playoffs dont work in toronto/Keefe's system. Therefor Torontos system doesnt work in the playoffs.

That's ridiculous. The Leafs haven't broken through in the playoffs but to say they won't is silly. The core 4 will, or they will be broken up. It's on them to win, they certainly have the talent.

They are arguably the most talented/skilled team in the league. I absolutely hope they break through this playoffs. I however do not have a short memory and i dont forget what teams/style of play the Leafs have lost to in the playoffs. CLB was a tight checking big team. MTL arguably had the slowest defence core in the NHL last year and almost didnt make the playoffs because of this. But guess what big slow and physical got them to the Stanley cup final. My point about all this is that the Leafs need to be able to play every single way not just skill skating and puck moving. The Leafs style of play wins regular season titles not stanley cups. The Leafs will either tweak their style or lose.

I think that is connecting dots that aren't really connected. The Columbus series was an anomaly, their goaltending was absolutely ridiculous and stole 2 games in a 5 game series, short series are crap shoots. Vs the Habs, Price was unreal in the playoffs. You can't give the credit to anyone but Price. He was the difference in the Leafs series

Yes Price was great last year but the Leafs couldnt get through the middle of the ice last year vs the Habs. They couldnt establish a 4check of any kind. This wasnt just the Leafs but every team the Habs played. When teams did get to the net they had to deal with Price. Clearly u and i would build teams differently and thats fine.

The dominated the run of play vs Montreal. Out shot them, I believe they even outscored them in the series. Held a big advantage possession wise as well. But, price was huge and Matthews hit like 4 posts.

This Argument aged well.

Well i guess Dubas tbought more along my line than yours.

yeah, i bet you totally knew he'd get traded for nick ritchie and the leafs entire 2nd pair would be out hurt.

lol, he was literally traded for a 2.5 million dollar player who cleared waivers

And a 2nd rounder. Holl is also a Healthy scratch not injured. It tough to admit when your wrong. Just take your lumps and move on.

No, i wasnt wrong. I stated that the leafs weren't paying a 2nd and Dermott for a bottom pairing defender. Instead the leafs traded a massive cap dump and a conditional 2nd 3 years from now for a bottom pairing defender.
So either figure out why that's such a different value or take your lumps and move on