Just keep dermott

Didn't read the description did you. I would keep him, but I don't like the idea of us using a 21-man roster for the year. I'd rather move on from him than Mikheyev if it came down to it. We have Liljegren that has been waiting for his chance, and here it is.

I think they keep Dermott, but at least you put some thought into the move.

If that's you're bottom 6, wouldn't you just go with a scoring line and a checking line?

Kerfoot - Spezza - Kase
Semyonov - Kampf - Mikheyev

Play each line as needed in the 3rd period depending on the score.

Also Spezza has proven to be a way better option than Kerfoot on the PP.

Trading Dermott will result in a Marincin like signing in case of injury in the D corps (which is likely to happen throughout a 82 game season).

Mikheyev is more easily replaceable than the insurance of Derms, capable to play top 4 minutes if needed temporary

Calling it now, Kase is starting on LTIR to accommodate a 22 man roster.

Training camp is right around the corner, the only moves coming will be a PTO for a depth RD. Unless they look at a big move (i.e Rielly/Kerfoot) which I don't see happening, there will be no minor moves (Dermott, Engvall, Mikheyev) traded. They need Dermott as insurance on LD, there is no real depth behind him. (Dalhstrom and Rubins (who I really like but no experience)

I wouldn't start the games with a designated checking line and scoring line, but it is really easy to make that switch in game. I like the idea of having Kerfoot and Kase ''unleashed'' on the wings with a defensively responsible C like Kämpf is. Kämpf has also played with more skilled teammates in Chicago (Kubalik was his winger most of the time and scored 30 goals on his wing). I like the idea of seeing what kind of offense both Mikheyev and Semyonov can produce together. Mikheyev scored at a decent rate in the KHL so hopefully he can chip in with closer to 30-35 points playing with his former line mate and Spezza who has been tremendous in a 4th line scoring role. Both Semyonov and Mikheyev have the legs to cover defensively for Spezza which I like.

While it is true that Spezza has been more effective than Kerfoot on the PP so far, I like the idea of playing Kerfoot as the bumper more than Spezza. He played this role with the Avalanche and scored a lot of PP points. I think I'd rather have Kase and Nylander on the Flanks to be shooting threats as well. Spezza will definitely get chances on the PP. Those games when he is feeling himself, Keefe can just unleash him and let Spezza do what he does.

Marincin type signing? We have both Biega and Dahlström for that. Menell likely gets a chance ahead of them as well. Depth is clearly there. I think it is harder than you think to find a versatile winger that plays equally as good on each side that plays 14 minutes a night, is great on the penalty kill while also possessing some elite speed for only $1.65M. A third pairing defenseman that is tasked with the same duties as Dermott is definitely not as hard to find in my opinion. There are a bunch of guys out there that can play 13 minutes a night which Dermott did last year and play a minute and a half a night shorthanded.

I'd prefer a line that can take some defensive draws instead of Matthews and Marner line taking on that role all the time.

Mikheyev may bounce back, or this may be what he is. He got a shot with Tavares and Nylander last year and couldn't produce, I'm not holding out much hope of him finding his scoring touch playing less min with a guy that's never played in NA before, who he played with 3 years ago. Especially when Semyonov isn't here because of his ability to put up pts.

Are you comfortable with those 13 min a night guys moving up into the top 4 when injuries happen?

Dermott has played very well on the 3rd pair, and looked OK when playing more minutes up the lineup.

That too is not easy to find for $1.5M.

Why is Kase starting on LTIR? Do you have some information that all of us don't? James Mirtle from the Athletic reported a month ago (August 11th) that Kase at the time had been fully cleared by doctors and already skated for five weeks. I don't think there is any chance of him starting on LTIR. From every report I have seen and mock rosters from experts, he is pencilled in to start the season fully healthy and ready to go.

Why can't they just get a LD on a PTO like Hutton? solves your depth issue really easily. I think we overvalue the importance of Dermott to this roster. Is he a good hockey player? ABSOLUTELY. But he only played 13 minutes a night last season while 25 seconds of those came on the penalty kill. It is not like he had this major role. His ice time will likely go up this season due to Bogosian being gone, but it's not like Bogosian ate a ton of minutes either. He played around 14:30 a game, 1:30 more than Dermott. 1:25 of those minutes came on the PK. It's not like the minutes are huge to fill for Dermott or anyone else for that matter. Dermott's $1.5M should be expandable in order for us to move Liljegren in full time and also make space to carry 22 skaters.

Mikheyev has produced at a 35 point pace per season so for in his career. I don't think my guess that he can reach 30 is unrealistic. He will be reunited with a familiar face and play with someone that has been on a 40 point pace per season as a Maple Leaf in Spezza. I definitely think we can see some production from them. I am not sure what Semyonov can contribute offensively, but he has had some fairly decent production as a shutdown guy for 5 years in the KHL. If you have done your research on him, you know what he can contribute from the defensive side and penalty kill which is nice. He is also developed into a beast in the face-off circle with 60% wins last year and 59% the previous year. I like my chance to bet on someone like him over Simmonds in my lineup. Mikheyev-Semyonov-Spezza are more than capable to handle defensive zone draws with two excellent guys in the dot. They can handle that workload without problem.

I am very comfortable having both Biega and Dahlström step in if there are injuries. Menell I will have to wait to see as it has been hard to find highlight of him from his pro career. I think Liljegren can move up and play with Muzzin without problem if there are injuries in the top 4 while it also would be good to see Sandin playing top 4 minutes if someone like Rielly went down. We would get a preview of what life without Rielly would look like. At the end of the day. EVERY team in the league gets worse when one of their top 4 defensemen get hurt. That is just a fact. Signing someone like Ben Hutton for extra stability wouldn't be the worst thing and then you have 4 defenders in Biega, Menell, Dahlström and Hutton that can step in if needed.

I've done my research, that's why I said he wasn't brought over here to put up points.

Still don't see the reason of not going one step further and throw Kampf on that line if they are taking the DZ draws. Spezza (aside from being solid on the draw) wouldn't be my first choice to be on a line that gets a boatload of DZ starts.

Keefe did spend the majority of the season last year trying to build a trustworthy checking line. Considering they found their C for the job, if Semyonov makes the team out of camp, all the elements of a reliable checking line is there.

Bonus is Kerfoot-Spezza play pretty well together and if Kase regains his form that trio can provide some solid depth scoring.

I like Liljegren, but I'd like to see him prove he can play in the NHL before I'm comfortable with him moving up the lineup in case of injuries.

He's been great in the AHL, it really has not translated so far.

Contenders don't leave themselves open to their season being ruined by an injury to a key player.

None of the guys that have been mentioned have shown they make Dermott expendable.

Liljegren was ready last season but it was pretty obvious he wasn't getting a chance over Stanley Cup winner Bogosian on the right side and he was never going to leapfrog both Dermott and Sandin plating on the left. He wasn't ready in those stints he had before last season. Last year he only got the chance to played two games, but looked great. He had a 64% corsi and 63% Fenwick if you rather look at that. He averaged almost 2 minutes shorthanded in those two games while playing 15 minutes. He did everything that was asked of him and although the sample size is minimal, you can only perform when the chances are given to you, which he did. I don't even have to talk about his play in the AHL as you seem to know that already. John Tavares only had great things to say about him during camp in January of this year. It is only fair to assume that he has gotten even better over this time period.

Link to JT talking about Liljegren. Starts at 1:32 if you don't want to watch the full four minute video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YSYO0xrG-8&t=92s

Liljegren and Sandin both make Dermott expandable. Sure, he can be the 7th defenseman and come in if there are injuries. But, is that the wisest way of using $1.5M if you are a team that is up against the ceiling? The answer is obviously no. Biega, Dahlström, Menell and potentially someone like Hutton are perfect as the 7th D. At some point you have to give your young players a chance full time and this is it for Liljegren. They have handled him excellently by not rushing him and letting him have time to adapt and mature. He is now ready and should be given the opportunity.

I could be wrong, I am cool with that lol, but from the podcasts I've listen to and from what I have seen online Kase will not be "ready" and the Leafs plan to but him on LTIR to start the year. And like I've said, we are weeks away from training cap, I really don't see any moves like a Dermott, Mikheyev, or Engvall (him possibly) before the start of the year. Those trades, if they were going to happen, would have been in July or August not into September. At least that's my opinion.

I am curious to know why you are so comfortable with Biega (played 13 games last year for DET) and Dahlstrom (played 17 games in the AHL for Henderson) as your backup plans to Dermott? No sarcasm here, like legit if Dermott is traded I don't feel comfortable at all on the LD side. Especially if Sandin has some growing pains. If they bring back Hutton great, but outside of Rubins and Kivihalme the options in house are slim.

While a checking line consisting of Semyonov-Kämpf-Mikheyev is something I don't mind personally, I don't think that is how we start games. That line can be thrown together at the end of games to close them out if need be. Spezza can't handle playing more than 11 minutes a night which he would playing with Kase and Kerfoot. He couldn't handle it in the playoffs either. He was our 2nd best goalscorer and 3rd in points but still only played 11:44 in the playoffs. Clearly shows he doesn't have the legs to play more than that or Keefe would have thrown him in more.

I am going to link an piece written by former Leafs hockey operations assistant and Marlies assistant coach Jack Han, and what his thoughts are on Kämpf and what line mates would suit him. Give it a read, brilliant piece.
https://jhanhky.substack.com/p/is-kampf-the-next-danault

I have seen or heard nothing of Kase being injured so I am going to go with that. All the mock Leafs lines on the Athletic includes him in the starting lineup so I don't see there being any possible way for him to start the season on LTIR unless he gets hurt in camp.

Why is it so hard to see the Leafs make any moves? Do you think they will go with an extremely slim roster of 21 skaters? I, personally don't think so at all. I think Dermott is the most expandable if you look at someone like Liljegren that has patiently been waiting for his chance. Refer to my previous reply to Barilko14 for why I think he is ready.

As for your question to why I am comfortable with both Dahlström and Biega? They were specifically targeted by Dubas as he knows they can fill a role when called upon. This is what he had to say about them in in his free agency interview:

Watch the whole thing if you want. He talks about every single signing. 12:19 is were he talks specifically about Biega and Dahlström.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knZqtRNA6YM

I feel very confident with Dahlström stepping in and playing minutes if Sandin has growing pains which I have to add is very unlikely.

"Ondrej Kase was an interesting signing for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He’s only 25 years old and he has talent – in fact, lots of talent. But Maple Leafs’ fans shouldn’t expect him to play any time soon."

"First, they’re taking a chance on a player who, if he could regain his health, would probably become a great addition to the team. But that “IF” is all in capital letters."

“Ondrej, we want you in Toronto. First, we’ll try to help get you back to being a healthy person. Second, we’ll see where you fit for us on the ice. We’ll commit to those two things, in that order. Your health is first; and, being a hockey player is second.”

"multiple Bruins reporters suggested retirement might be on the table Kaše."
“Kase’s concussion woes are not new. He arrived to Boston with a substantial injury history, and it’s believed that this latest concussion was his fifth documented concussion in his professional career At just 25, that’s downright terrifying,”

Again just snippets from different articles on why I think he could very well start the year on LTIR. This gives the Leafs finical flexibility to start the year, gauge how the roster looks, then when they feel Kase is ready look to make a move to fit him in.

Or I am wrong and he starts, which would be awesome.

They only Dman I feel comfortable with are Liljegren and Mennell both RD. I will be very surpirsed if Beiga and Dalhstrom don't play the enitre time with the Marlies. IMO they were brought in as leadership for a very young Mariles team, not depth for the Leafs.

Again, until Liljegren shows he's up to speed (specifically decision making) at an NHL level, he doesn't make dermott expendable to me.

I find it a bit strange that the biggest knock on Dermott (not by you, just most forums) is that he hasn't won or shown he's capable of playing in the Top 4, but it's assumed that Liljegren will not only be a capable 3rd pair guy, but comfortably slide in to Holl's role when needed.

Dermott had tremendous success in the AHL as well, and forced his way into the lineup. Liljegren has only accomplished one of those.

Keep Dermott who can play both sides, keep Liljegren as 7th, and let the two best dmen (including Sandin) play when the games really matter. injuries happen, if the 3 of them are rotated, they all likely see plenty of games. Until it's proven otherwise, Dermott is still the most capable of jumping into the top 4 if/when injuries occur.

If Dermott doesn't get a pass for not stealing minutes from Rielly or Muzzin to crack the top 4, why does Liljegren get a pass for not stealing Bogo's job? Everyone knows which job is harder to take.

James Mirtle on August 11th, 2021:

''I’m told Kase has been skating for five weeks now and is fully cleared from the concussions that have plagued him in recent years. And his close friendship with David Kampf, the Leafs’ new 3C, was a huge factor in his decision to come to Toronto.''

I take the word of James Mirtle much more seriously than some unnamed quotes from random articles. James Mirtle together with Jonas Siegel follow the Leafs and write about them for the Athletic. I 100% listen to anything they say regarding the Leafs.

As for Biega and Dahlström, why can't they do both? They will act as mentors for the young guys with the Marlies and then have the chance to get called up if there is an injury crisis. I don't really see how that is a problem at all. We have depth that can cover for injuries and it is isn't hard to sign an additional body if needed. We have really good cover in all positions now. Dubas has done a phenomenal job this offseason.

I think everyone is wayyyy to hung up on 3rd line 4th line.

IMO 1st line should be 20ish min per night. 2nd line is 18ish. Then roll two 3rd lines. Run the scoring line out when trailing, the checking line when ahead.

Over the season they are both 12ish minutes per game, and when Spezza is looking fatigued Simmonds comes in for the odd game.

Doesn't seem to complicated to me.

I like Jack Han's stuff, not going to bother checking it out right now. I just know what I witnessed last year. Looked like the coaching staff spent the better part of season trying to create a checking line, and then mgmt followed that up by going hard after a def responsible centre.

Sometimes 1 + 1 = 2.

Not arguing, just from what I have seen online from multiple sites (I did give you the Jack Han article) is why I think he could be still placed on LTIR. Hope I am wrong.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree on our stance on Dermott being expandable. I have nothing against Dermott as a player, I just think that we have a player in Liljegren that can come in and do the exact same thing Dermott does right now while being almost $640K cheaper. For a team up against the ceiling and currently forced to field a 21 man roster, I think it is logical to move the more expensive contract out (I have to make it really clear that I don't think Dermott is overpaid). If you compare Dermott and Liljegren, I think most people would agree that Liljegren has more upside. What Dermott is now, three and a half years into his NHL career is likely what he is going to be for the rest of his career. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, Liljegren has the potential to develop further and become a mainstay on the Leafs top 4 after Holl's contract expires. Could Dermott do that? Maybe, definitely won't say that he can't, but I like Liljegren's chances better.

As for your point regarding Dermott not getting a pass for not stealing minutes from Muzzin and Rielly, I say this. He has had three years to force the front office to open up a job for him in the top 4 either on the left or right. When he broke into the team 17/18 the Leafs blue line consisted of Gardiner, Zaitsev, Hainsey, Rielly, Polak, Carrick and Borgman. With his potential, he should definitely been seen as someone that could have replaced Gardiner long term as his contract was expiring after the next season. Same with Hainsey, who was really old and definitely needed replacing once his deal was up. He had two open spots most likely that he could have forced himself into. In the 18/19 season the Leafs blue line consisted of Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Hainsey, Dermott, Marincin, Ozhiganov and Holl who only played 11 games. The Leafs decided to add Muzzin during the year which was great, which would replace one of the two expiring top 4 defenseman. The other spot was wide open for Dermott to take if he could prove his worth. The next offseason the Leafs added Barrie and Soured on Zaitsev when he wanted a move. Instead of giving Dermott a spot in the top 4, the Leafs decided to go for Cody Ceci. Ceci is someone that Dermott should have out battled and taken minutes from, but he didn't. Instead Holl took a huge step and forced himself into the top 4 when he got a chance to play with Muzzin. Last offseason with Ceci's contract expiring, nobody thought Dermott could jump up into the top 4 and replace those minutes that Barrie played. Instead the Leafs went for Brodie and had Dermott yet again stay on the third pair rather than promoting him into a bigger role. His pathway as a Maple Leaf clearly shows that management have no faith in him playing more than third pairing minutes which makes him highly expandable with a talent like Liljegren coming through.

I don't think it is fair at all to say that Liljegren should have stole Bogosian's job. Bogosian was going to play every night he was healthy and he gave management absolutely no reason to take him out of the lineup. So your point is very flawed. Dermott has had openings multiple times in his career, but hasn't proved that he is good enough to take them. First to replace one of Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev, and then to replace Barrie. Management has chosen to go with other guys over him, and that makes me wonder why? What are we missing? Maybe he is someone that management considered expandable although they never would say it out loud as it would tank his value.

Babcock.

If you follow Jack Han fairly closely, you'll know what I'm getting at.