skinner’s negative value is more than eichel’s positive value

You have to give to get!

I did...not see this one coming lol

I disagree but yeah a huge amount of neg val

No team would do this Skinner and Eichel are not 19m players. Even if Sabres had the maximum 50% retention. 14.5m is not the value of these players.
Next summer the Sens would be 100 times better off spending 19m on good UFAs.

Hm.

The song lyrics help lol

I feel that the cost to take Skinner is about 2/3 of Eichel's value (about 2.5 first round picks) so maybe white brann brown + pix are the other 1/3 I guess

Interesting

I think buffalo likes it a lot but Ottawa less so

Not even close

We simply keep Skinner. In 3 years if we have cap problems we deal with it then. We are going to be a cap floor team for a couple years

I want eichel badly, but Skinner's deal is impossible to work. It's legitimately crippling for a team that is building up and is about need to spend a crapload of money on young players in the next few year. It's a complete nonstarter

With Eichel posting much better posession numbers lately and with his prime years upcoming it seems very likely he'll be a 12M player until 2025 🤷‍♂️

I'd bet on it myself

Jeff might be idk a 2.5M$ player all told?

One reason I feel the Skinner deal isn't devastating in context is that it still so easy to sign good cheap depth with the likes of Leivo available every year for 1M$

So if you have to take J$S to get Eichel then meh

You can still build around him decently

But which UFAs would sign in Ottawa? Outside of all star Sabu of course



yea lol

Don't think Buffalo would do it. Sabres owner has a net worth over 5 billions and has been spending to the cap until recently even though his team sucked for over a decade and has had a negative operating income

A move like this would mean that he's tired of wasting money on his team and that he would depreciate their best asset just to get rid of a contractual burden

For Ottawa, it would mean that Melnyk is ready to "burn" a good portion of these 52 M$ owed to Skinner. Let,s say he brings a 2 M$ value per season on average, that's 40 M$ down the drain. Would Melnyk do that to get Eichel at a bargain price? lol I doubt it



Close to what?

Your quote is messed up but

Melnyk... how long have you been following the Sens? I was already a hardcore Sens fan when he bought the team in 2003... This year is supposed the be the first year of the FYOUS (where he said we'd start spending near the cap). We're 7.25 M$ below the cap floor right now.

You also say it is an "horrible trade proposal for Eichel/Skinner", but have you verified what Sabres fans think? If they'd do it?

The goal here (which would never happen, we're just talking) is obviously to take the 52 M$ contract off their hands which would give a major discount to get Eichel

But have you seen the alternatives where people demand Norris, Pinto, 1st round picks, etc?

Yea, I've been following the Sens. Actually Melnyk spend when and tried to win, gee they went to the Conference Finals I believe four years ago. Sens fans should be delighted that Melnyk didn't budge on his 10m offer to Karlsson, and got San Jose to make that sucker trade and resigning of EK. Sens were wise to not to overpay for Duchene and trade him for assets. Nashville sure ain't happy they signed him.
Stone wanted to leave, despite a fair offer from the Sens.
IMO those trade proposals where either the Sens, Ducks or Kings have to give up so much of their youth are just ridiculous. Teams aren't biting because they believe they can land an excellent UFA for Eichel money and keep all those cheap young assets.
I wouldn't want 10m Eichel and 9m Skinner for free. Next summer the Sens could spend 19m a lot better than having those two guys on the team.
I know the last three years have been difficult been a Sens fan. But no use wasting future cap. IMO the Sens are in such an enviable position going forward,,,spending cap on their good RFAs, and supplemented with some UFA signs, plus they still have talented group on ELCs.

Yeah they have made the ECF in 2017, came very close to make the SCF. But the team salary cap in 2016-17 was $69,252,320, and that's accounting MacArthur 4.5 salary on LTIR all season (insured). Also, Hoffman's salary was 3.8 vs his 5.1875 AAV and Brassard was 3.0 vs his 5.0 AAV. It's well known that Melnyk loves to go after contracts where the salary owed to the player is lesser than the AAV. Much easier to reach the cap floor like that.

Yes it turned out great in hindsight for Ottawa to trade Karlsson to the Sharks, same for Duchene as not re-signing him but they didn't get much for him in the end (Abramov gone to KHL for now and Thomson is like Ottawa's 15th best prospect). Remember what they paid (Turris (could have gotten a nice return for him instead) and what ended to be a 4th OA pick. Bowers and a 3rd as well who weren't great pieces)

I really wish Ottawa could have kept Stone and Pageau for the rebuild, those were the 2 vets I wanted to stay on the team

Tkachuk-Norris-Stone
Stutzle-Pinto-Batherson
Formenton-Pageau-Brown
Paul-Tierney-White
Watson

That forward group would be fantastic (I'd run the first 3 lines evenly at ES)

Too bad it didn't work out that way and gotta understand them wanting to contend right away instead of going into a rebuild. Yes, the Sens are extremely well positioned for the future and they could build a serious perennial contender once again but that will ONLY happen if Melnyk spends a LOT of money or sell the team to somebody who will.

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When you say "I wouldn't want 10m Eichel and 9m Skinner for free", is it serious?

I mean, let's imagine for a second that Melnyk is even richer than he is and that he doesn't mind going a bit more negative on the operating income (like maybe 50% of NHL teams), Skinner for 6 years is manageable. That would be "weaponizing" cap space (get Eichel for free!)

They have over 28.5 M$ in cap space right now. Let's say they only send Tierney back for Eichel/Skinner, they'd still have 13 M$ left to sign Batherson and Tkachuk

Yes, next year they have Norris and Formenton to sign but they'd have the space depending on they manage the bridges for all these young players (without the need to trade another salary). Holden, Nick Paul and Josh Brown contracts will be up.

The following year it will be Stutzle, Pinto and JBD (and Sokolov) but money will start going off the books with Connor Brown, Austin Watson, Artem Zub, Del Zotto being UFAs. The year after, you have Murray 6.25 and Zaitsev 4.5 coming off the books. It's super manageable. You also plan to buy out Skinner's contract at the best possible timing

But of course, there'd be ways to use that 19 M$ even better but this is not a guarantee to happen as it requires Dorion to make only good moves and UFAs to want to sign in Ottawa. Getting Eichel for free/cheap is a great thing even though you're completely wasting millions on Skinner contract.

Yes, I am serious. I just can't believe any Senator fan would think Eichel and Skinner are good value at 19m. Any competent GM will be able to get much better value on the UFA market than those two players.
Let's see what cap space has next summer. Sens shouldn't be blowing it on those guys with some of their RFAs expecting big raises.

Do you at least believe Eichel is worth 10 M$ (if healthy)?

Skinner could rebound a bit so maybe he'll be worth 5 M$ or something. If he doesn't, then maybe 2 M$?

So even at his "lowest value", you'd have to manage this "wasted" 7 M$ for 6 years.

If it means you're getting Eichel for free/cheap, wouldn't be more productive than having more CAP SPACE? Who does it benefit outside of Eugene Melnyk?

I think that's what you're not understanding here. Like I said, I have been following the Sens hardcore even before Melnyk bought the team. I had a pretty good understanding of the salary cap right away (2006) as I was already in the business world. I have been following the NHL market closely since the beginning

Anyway, this is just an hypothetical discussion as it would never happen and seriously, I'm curious to see how much they'll spend next year, like you said it's possible that they make better use of these 19M$. As previously "promised" by Melnyk himself, the FYOUS would see the Sens spend to the cap!

But here we are in year #1 of the FYOUS, Ottawa is 7.25 M$ UNDER the cap FLOOR with 2 RFAs to sign... Keep that in mind

e a

You seem to have a hard on for Melynk. I'm saying the Sens aren't Cup contenders, maybe not playoff contenders this year, even with those two players Save your cap and spend it wiser next year and the years after. So what if the Sens are under the cap floor now. It's opening day that counts. There are still players available plus teams with cap problems just might "give" Sens players to help both teams with their cap issues

What do you mean I have a "hard on" for Melnyk? lol wouldn't be the opposite? Like the vast majority of Sens fans, I think he is a big detriment to the team/market and wish we had someone different.

I don't disagree with your premise, I would obviously prefer the GM to make an "even better" use of these 19 M$ but look at Matt Murray, Colin White and Dadonov contracts (there's more in the recent past like Condon, Burrows, Zack Smith, etc). Look at that Stepan trade... Dorion has not proven he can have a good success rate on several moves in a row (like Bergevin last year for example : Allen, Toffoli, Edmundson, Anderson, Perry) so it's pretty much the russian roulette with him.

Of course it's "opening day that counts"... but we went through 3 major events (Expansion draft, Draft, UFA market) and the Sens haven't used their cap space at all, they actually reduced it lol

You're right, I'm waiting to see the team in October before making "final judgment". I absolutely think they could "weaponize" their cap space and add good stop gaps that will help the team grow. Still waiting

Most NHL teams spend like crazy just for the hope of slightly improving their team. Ottawa banks on ONE thing : drafting and developing young NHL talent. In some cases, they don't even benefit of these talent as much as the next team will (Zibanejad, Stone for example)

As long as Melnyk is the owner, I'll have to see it before changing my opinion, that is the same as actual NHL players who have been employed by Melnyk.