Forums/Armchair-GM

VAN without giving up futures

Créé par: Reason
Date de création initiale: 22 juill. 2021
Publié: 22 juill. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Canucks de Vancouver
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Hughes, Quinn56 250 000 $
Pettersson, Elias17 500 000 $
Juolevi, Olli1750 000 $
Dickinson, Jason42 250 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Hamonic, Travis22 500 000 $
Sutter, Brandon11 500 000 $
Boyd, Travis1800 000 $
Montour, Brandon43 750 000 $
Transactions
1.
VAN
  1. DeBrusk, Jake
  2. Clifton, Connor
Détails additionnels:
Not to sure of Clifton's value. This would seem pretty close to me but lets hear from the non-bias viewers.
BOS
  1. Schmidt, Nate
  2. MacEwen, Zack
Rachats de contrats
  • Jake Virtanen: 50 000 $
Frais appliqués
  • Roberto Luongo: 3 035 212 $
Enfoui
  • Loui Eriksson: 4 875 000 $ (6 000 000 $)
  • Antoine Roussel: 1 875 000 $ (3 000 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2021
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de CHI
Logo de VAN
Logo de WPG
Logo de VAN
2022
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
2023
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
Logo de VAN
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2481 500 000 $83 168 159 $648 780 $1 982 500 $-1 668 159 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de VAN
Miller, J.T.
5 250 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Pettersson, Elias
7 500 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 3
Logo de VAN
Boeser, Brock
5 875 000 $
AD
RFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Pearson, Tanner
3 250 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de VAN
Horvat, Bo
5 500 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Höglander, Nils
891 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de BOS
DeBrusk, Jake
3 675 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Dickinson, Jason
2 250 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 3
Logo de VAN
Podkolzin, Vasily
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 3
Logo de VAN
Motte, Tyler
1 225 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Sutter, Brandon
1 500 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Highmore, Matthew
725 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de VAN
Hughes, Quinn
6 250 000 $
DG
UFA - 6
Logo de VAN
Hamonic, Travis
2 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Demko, Thatcher
5 000 000 $
G
UFA - 5
Montour, Brandon
3 750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 3
Logo de VAN
Myers, Tyler
6 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de VAN
Holtby, Braden
4 300 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Rathbone, Jack
925 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
Logo de BOS
Clifton, Connor
1 000 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Holtby, Braden
2 000 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de VAN
Boyd, Travis
800 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Ferland, Micheal
3 500 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Lockwood, William
842 500 $
AD
RFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Beagle, Jay
3 000 000 $
C
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Juolevi, Olli
750 000 $
DG
RFA - 1

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23 juill. 2021 à 0 h 43
#26
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Quoting: Gofnut999
There is a difference in age as well, Debrusk was averaging 25 goals per 82 his first 3 years. At his prime Schmidt was average defensively. He’s a 25 pt d man that is below average defensively, doesn’t hit anyone and nearing the end of his prime years.

After the Arvidsson trade i’d say 2nd and 5th is about his value. Rather hold him a see if he rebuilds his value if they can’t do better. Seattle for Dunn would make sense.


Those are fair points. I personally don't think Debrusk holds value to get 2nd+ even if that plus is a 5th but I don't think it's unreasonable take by you or anything. My real issue with Debrusk's value is that giving up value for him is risky considering his QO next year I would agree with you that if they can't get something of decent value back then they're best hanging onto him and seeing if he bounces back and becomes a player worth his QO again (unless they ship him for something around 3rd rounder value because they plan to use his cap on a specific player).
23 juill. 2021 à 0 h 47
#27
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Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
Fair return for DeBrusk is future considerations.


Lol that might be a little too far the other way but im sure some GM's would agree solely based on his performance last year and cap hit. If he struggles through the first quarter of the season then he would definitely be trending toward that territory.
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23 juill. 2021 à 1 h 5
#28
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
Those are fair points. I personally don't think Debrusk holds value to get 2nd+ even if that plus is a 5th but I don't think it's unreasonable take by you or anything. My real issue with Debrusk's value is that giving up value for him is risky considering his QO next year I would agree with you that if they can't get something of decent value back then they're best hanging onto him and seeing if he bounces back and becomes a player worth his QO again (unless they ship him for something around 3rd rounder value because they plan to use his cap on a specific player).


I don't think he's worth his QO unless he has a breakout season. 5M should get you a top 6 forward who you don't have to worry about if they'll perform or not.

Next year's draft is a very strong draft. I might give a 3rd for DeBrusk half retained and just use him as a 1 year rental.

Not a chance DeBrusk gets you Dunn.
23 juill. 2021 à 1 h 7
#29
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Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
I don't think he's worth his QO unless he has a breakout season. 5M should get you a top 6 forward who you don't have to worry about if they'll perform or not.

Next year's draft is a very strong draft. I might give a 3rd for DeBrusk half retained and just use him as a 1 year rental.

Not a chance DeBrusk gets you Dunn.


I agree. Only way he is worth his QO is if he puts up 25+ goals.

My take on his value right now as a Canucks fan is probably similar to Virtanen's before last season. And I think at that time Virtanen was coming off an 18goal season and looked like he could break out a bit so I would have put his value around a 3rd round pick.
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23 juill. 2021 à 1 h 11
#30
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
I agree. Only way he is worth his QO is if he puts up 25+ goals.


Give up too much and you basically have to QO him even if he isn't worth it. He's been putting up worse stats every season he's been in the NHL and I doubt he hits 25 goals next season.

I think he gets ~15 goals and ~40 points next season if he plays the ~70 games he usually does.

Max he gets ~20 goals and ~50 points.
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23 juill. 2021 à 1 h 20
#31
GM CRIME DAWG
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Modifié 23 juill. 2021 à 1 h 37
DeBrusk is what's called "Clutch".
As Leaf & Nucks fans ^ ^ ^ that's a foreign concept I know...

He has more meaningful playoff goals than anyone in his draft class (incl a dude named McD)...
One key goal in fact, was a Series game winner against the perennial sad-sack '67 Leafs...
23 juill. 2021 à 8 h 10
#32
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Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
DeBrusk has a QO of 4.85M + arb rights which basically means he isn't getting qualified. He has a cap hit of 3.675M and has gotten worse every season he plays (his best season was his rookie season).

I don't see DeBrusk outplaying his contract next season even if he rebounds it's a fair contract but not a discount. You're also taking the risk he plays the way he did this season or worse. At this point I wouldn't give up any assets for him. What the Bruins would get by trading him is cap space.

Just like Schmidt is a good player in a vacuum he's just not worth the cap hit. Same story with DeBrusk.

Clifton I'd give a 5th for, he's a decent 3rd pairing defenceman that can be fully buried.



Schmidt at 4M is actually a pretty good contract imo. I could see teams giving up more than a prospect and a late pick for that considering his versatility of being able to play both sides effectively.

Boston would be smart to hold onto DeBrusk who I think is at an all time low in value right now. Personally I wouldn't take him for free.


His second season he had 27 in 68. His best season was his second season. The year covid stopped i think he had 19 in 50-something. The covid season, he sucked. Doesn’t seem like you really know what you’re talking about with this player. If he gets back to a 25 goal pace, he certainly gets qualified. If he doens’t, he doesn’t. No risk!
23 juill. 2021 à 8 h 13
#33
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
You're acting like Debrusk didn't just score 5 goals in 41 games and isn't a 3.675mil cap hit with 4.8 in real dollars owed to him plus a qualifying offer in the mid 4million range next year. Fair enough if you think Schmidt is being overvalued but you are definitely overvaluing Debrusk as well and by a large margin.


Was i? Didn’t seem like i really said much about debrusk, was just discussing the reasons boston wouldn’t want schmidt.

I’ve discussed debrusk a lot on here. Which seems more likely when it comes to debrusk
1. A 24 year old just forgot how to play hockey
2. Shortened off-season, no pre-season, and the overall weirdness of the covid year hurt debrusk.
23 juill. 2021 à 8 h 50
#34
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Quoting: CMcAvoy73
His second season he had 27 in 68. His best season was his second season. The year covid stopped i think he had 19 in 50-something. The covid season, he sucked. Doesn’t seem like you really know what you’re talking about with this player. If he gets back to a 25 goal pace, he certainly gets qualified. If he doens’t, he doesn’t. No risk!


The risk is he plays the way he did this season and you lose 3.65M in cap space for a healthy scratch plus all the assets that you gave up for him.

If he plays the way he did his first 2 seasons he's worth his contract but I'm not qualifying him at 5M so he essentially becomes a 1 year rental.

Taylor Hall was in a similar situation at the TDL this year but he has a much higher upside (Hart trophy winner) and was half retained. He costed a late 2nd in a weak draft. Maybe if I'm a team with a lot of cap space like Detroit I give a 4th or 5th round pick for him hoping he rebounds and I can flip him at the deadline for more.
23 juill. 2021 à 8 h 55
#35
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Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
The risk is he plays the way he did this season and you lose 3.65M in cap space for a healthy scratch plus all the assets that you gave up for him.

If he plays the way he did his first 2 seasons he's worth his contract but I'm not qualifying him at 5M so he essentially becomes a 1 year rental.

Taylor Hall was in a similar situation at the TDL this year but he has a much higher upside (Hart trophy winner) and was half retained. He costed a late 2nd in a weak draft. Maybe if I'm a team with a lot of cap space like Detroit I give a 4th or 5th round pick for him hoping he rebounds and I can flip him at the deadline for more.


His second season he played at a 32 goal pace…you don’t think that’s worth 5 mill?

Anyway, what assets? I don’t see any assets there. Schmidt has negative value. You can’t be talking about the massive risk of one year at 3.6 and then ignore the risk of 4 years at 5.9. It’s just silly. Seems like you don’t really understand the situation here, so I’m gonna move along until you do.
23 juill. 2021 à 11 h 51
#36
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Quoting: CMcAvoy73
His second season he played at a 32 goal pace…you don’t think that’s worth 5 mill?

Anyway, what assets? I don’t see any assets there. Schmidt has negative value. You can’t be talking about the massive risk of one year at 3.6 and then ignore the risk of 4 years at 5.9. It’s just silly. Seems like you don’t really understand the situation here, so I’m gonna move along until you do.


I'm not saying Boston does this trade... they don't... Schmidt's cap hit is too high. I'm simply discussing DeBrusk's value.

If Debrusk was a consistent 30 goal scorer he'd be worth a 1st but he just isn't...
23 juill. 2021 à 12 h 15
#37
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Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
I'm not saying Boston does this trade... they don't... Schmidt's cap hit is too high. I'm simply discussing DeBrusk's value.

If Debrusk was a consistent 30 goal scorer he'd be worth a 1st but he just isn't...


Oh. Weird. I don’t know why. Literally never brought that up. Anyone, i have dove into that subject a lot. I think it’s a lot more likely that the shortened off season, lack of a pre-season, and all the oddities of the covid season impacted him, than a 24 year old just forgot how to play hockey. He didn’t have his legs. Anyhow, because of that i think he has more value to the bruins than he does in trade. I don’t think any team will offer up something to the bruins that will have the potential for a greater impact than debrusk if he bounces back. That’s what it would take to get him, not cap dumps.
23 juill. 2021 à 15 h 42
#38
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Quoting: CMcAvoy73
Oh. Weird. I don’t know why. Literally never brought that up. Anyone, i have dove into that subject a lot. I think it’s a lot more likely that the shortened off season, lack of a pre-season, and all the oddities of the covid season impacted him, than a 24 year old just forgot how to play hockey. He didn’t have his legs. Anyhow, because of that i think he has more value to the bruins than he does in trade. I don’t think any team will offer up something to the bruins that will have the potential for a greater impact than debrusk if he bounces back. That’s what it would take to get him, not cap dumps.


Maybe the cost to get him is high but I don't think other teams would give up much if anything for him. If Boston has faith he will be a 30 goal scorer I don't think they even consider moving him.
23 juill. 2021 à 15 h 50
#39
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Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
Maybe the cost to get him is high but I don't think other teams would give up much if anything for him. If Boston has faith he will be a 30 goal scorer I don't think they even consider moving him.


I wouldn’t even go that far. If they think he’s a 20 goal scorer (even with his crap season, he’s played at a 22 goal per 82 pace over his career), they’re not going to trade him unless they think they have better coming back. Trading him in general would be really dumb. The notion that he has no, or next to no value is dumber. These trades where its a cap dump or two for debrusk are a superlative level of stupid.
 
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