Colorado takes that unless they get a great offer for Graves.

I think Mantha will/should get more than that considering he's probably better than Nylander and most of those years are UFA years.

I'd agree with that. I'm just going off a report I saw that said he's close to signing for 5 year 5.5-6 million. I have no clue if that's true or not though.

Ive done the zadorov trade a couple times too and I think it's the perfect move. Hes the right age and the ld has a gaping hole in it and id rather they use a few of those extra picks on more than 17 year olds

I completely agree. The more I think about it the more I feel like it makes sense.

The biggest problem with a Zadorov move is that Zadorov is not good

Definitely interested in Zadorov as one of the LHD i'd like to see Stevie go after for the future. Big, solid Dman that can play on the 2nd or 3rd pair.

Avs fan. I wouldn't say that. The main issue is that he's inconsistent. When he's good, he can be a force. But when he's off you see a number of mental errors.

The reason I might do this from a Wings perspective is that his play improves with ice time (i.e. the larger the role, the better he plays). He also tends to step it up in important games. You may deal with a guy who makes the occasional bonehead error in the regular season, but he can tighten it up when it counts.

Bottom line is that it's a risk that could pay off big time. At worst you have a good third pairing guy who will be overpaid but won't be on the decline any time soon.

Yeah that's not just even close to accurate.

Unless....

Okay, but like when are the Red Wings going to be playing any important games? A couple years still? They're going to acquire Zadorov so that he'll maybe step up in a couple years? That seems like a problem that doesn't need to be solved right now.

This idea that when he's "on" he's a force- I mean, maybe? But also just because he looks like he's doing something good doesn't mean he actually is. If he's being inconsistent, that usually means that he isn't doing something good. Zadorov hasn't been completely inconsistent though, his underlying numbers have shown consistently that he drags down offense while being consistently okay defensively. Here is something that shows that. And like look, that's not nothing, there is value there, but at possibly four million plus the assets it costs to acquire him? Idk man, couldn't be me. And it shouldn't be red wings fans, knowing how much success Yzerman has had drafting in later rounds.

As far as whether he'll decline, are you saying it'll be awhile before he'll drag defensively AND offensively? He's only been a positive impact player three times in his career. Here is something that shows that, and oh look two of those years was when Colorado got good, surely that's a coincidence.

I get the hesitations. I really do. He'll probably never be an analytics darling, but that also doesn't mean he doesn't have some positive impacts.

There is a very clear distinction between "good Z" and "bad Z." Good Z can be deployed in a shut down role and create fits for the opposition. His physicality is a positive as well. Bad Z can have mental lapses that lead to a spiral which ultimately lands him in the dog house for a wake-up call. He's a prime change of scenery candidate (imo).

As far as being a while before he declines, I'm mostly referring to his age (still just 25) and the fact that his floor now will (at worst) be his floor throughout his next contract. Thus, the absolute worst case is ending up with a good but probably overpaid 3rd pairing defenseman. Thus, there is more upside than down (imo). If the Wings have the cap, could be a risk worth taking.

I'd actually be fine if the Avs kept him, but the emergence of Graves and the Byram pick make it unlikely.

Advanced stats are mostly a complete waste of time. They completely lack context and obviously fail the eye test most of the time. There are so many variables that go into a player's performance that breaking it down into a few "advanced" numbers is nonsensical. How many guys have benefited greatly from a change of scenery? Different linemates, different coach, different system, different city, etc. Advanced stats completely fail this test, every time. Zadorov is a top pick, big, mobile LHD. That is exactly the type of player this team needs to take a chance on to expedite the rebuild and become competitive again.

Of course the price is always the kicker.

Buddy if you hate analytics you and Stevie Y are gonna disagree on a lot of stuff and I bet you the value of Zadorov is one of them

Also, players that have a change of scenery and benefit very routinely have solid underlying numbers on the team they are moving on from. Ryan O'Reilly is a perfect example of this. So is pretty much every player on Vegas. Analytics pass that test all the time. Meanwhile the teams that give up those players are examples of the eye test failing.

Ryan O'Reilly was a great player before and after his move. Don't need analytics to tell you that. Much like a lot of good players in the league. The good ones are easy to see, that's what makes them good. You're trying to discredit a player's ability based on some BS Excel line-graph, as if there aren't a million other things going on on the ice at the same time. It's absurd. It's like using +/- to assess a dman's ability to play defense.

Based on Yzerman's draft and trade history we will agree just fine. The guy knows talent and goes and gets it.

If he was so good why did Buffalo get rid of him? I heard a whole lot of "head wasn't in the game, had an attitude problem, visibly gave up working when the going got tough" eye test BS stuff.

As for Yzerman, you realize he drafts and trades based on analytics right? That's how he "knows talent" and was able to get guys like Point and Palat way down the line, and Gourde and Johnson for free. They had underlying numbers that were great but everyone like you who just believes what they see said "ah Point he's so small! He's not physical! He doesn't score enough! He'll never be able to keep up in the league!". And now he's a top-10 center in the league. You only agree with him in hindsight, because the bets he makes based on analytics are good ones. If you actually knew how he was picking these guys in the moment and you hate analytics, you would disagree with him.

lol you just make straw man arguments....they're fun to read.

God you're dumb

ahhh, the true sign of a debate champion. Straw man, insult, repeat. I don't have the time or energy to pick apart every piece of your scarecrow so I'll just leave it be here.

Tell me exactly what the strawman argument I made was

See what I'm hearing is that I'm making good points, you have no good points to make in return (because there are none) and so YOU have to resort to red herrings and gaslighting, like saying I'm making strawman arguments when I am clearly not. Not very smart, hence the comment that you are dumb, because that's what dumb people do.

Nice sparing with you, I'll see you again I'm sure