No chance arizona does that. And you're overvalueing Johnsson and engvall by a round

The Arizona deal is really lopsided.

There is 100% a chance something like this could happen due to funding issues. I agree if there were no other factors no way Arizona does this. But the reality is they could get a quality #1 for 1 million in real dollars.

Johnsson for a 2nd is fine value and Engvall is a 4th/3rd doesn't matter much to me.



From a pure value stand point yes but financially it makes a ton of sense for the coyotes. Saves them 4M+ in actual payout

So consider Kuemper and Andersen were equal value, why is Toronto getting Hjalmarsson for free? And a pick? Missing a pretty significant add from the Leafs.

Zz

The take in the Steve Dangle podcast was that Kuemper and Andersen are not equal value and Arizona would throw in a sweetener. I understand it's opinion based and not fact.

In a world where multiple teams have internal budgets Andersen at 1M dollars provides far superior value to Kuemper at 4.5M.

I'm sure there will be multiple people commenting not understanding that aspect of the trade. Trading Hjalmarsson further eases cash issues.

It's going to be a wonky offseason

If they're trading kuemper that means they'd be starting a rebuild. Otherwise there's no reason to trade kuempur who's a better goalie than Andersen

Trading Kuemper for Andersen saves them 3.5M in cash. Andersen is still a capable starter and amazing value for 1M.

Once again, it's not strictly player value that is important here, context is important. They also just signed Adin Hill who they probably believe can become a #1 in the near future

Andersen is good but he only has 1 year left. You don't trade kuempur for that. If you trade kuempur you're looking for picks and prospects back to line up with adin hills progression while using raanta as a gap filler

kuemper > andersen

Heard that nonsense before "Kapenen will get a 2nd rnd pick tops"

Yeah but you have them retaining on Hjalmarsson. So therefore they are saving less. Why would they want to do that? I am also not sure Hjalmarsson is where the Leafs want to spend their money. Just because a trade was discussed on a Leafs-centric podcast doesn't mean it's good.

No clue why you dumped Engvall here? He's a reliable player in the bottom 6, is young and cheap. Don't forget Keefe helped develop him so probably doesn't want him gone.

1. Why does Ari want Andersen? Hill is waiver eligible this year, so are they carrying 3 goalies all season? Does it not make more sense to move Kuemper for picks/prospects?
2. They've already paid Hjarmlsson a signing bonus of $2M. His actual salary the rest of the year is $2M. If so inclined they could move him for a mid round draft pick at worst, so it really doesn't make sense that he's a throw in on this trade, and Ari retains on top.
3. Tor isn't the only team Ari can trade with, I'm pretty sure they get much better offers than this if they are shopping those 2 players.

Just cus toronto robbed one team doesn't mean the value of all toronto players increases.

I don't understand your math here. Hjalmarsson is due $4 million and Kuemper $3.5 million, while Andersen is due $5 million. With the retention, that means Arizona, which would have paid $5.5 million for the two players, now is paying $5 million for one and has to pay a League minimum at least for a second player plus $2.5 million retention. That's COSTING them money. And if you do the trade AFTER the signing bonuses are paid, Arizona pays $2 million for Hjalmarsson's bonus, $2.5 million for the retention on him, and $1 million for Andersen, which will end up saving them less than $2 million from the $5.5 million they would have paid when you add in the cost of the replacement player.

Toronto didn't Rob anybody - that's the going rate for middle 6 wingers signed to term

Hjalmarsson signing bonus has already been paid. The retaining on Hjalmarsson doesn't need to be at 50%, I kind of just used 50% as a base. It could be at 25%, 30% whatever the Leafs would need to make it work.

This is the salary Arizona would be paying after this deal.

Hjarlmsson - 2M (30% retained) = 600,000. Freddy Andersen (1 million) = 1.6M actual salary

Leafs - Keumper - 4.5M + 1.4M = 5.9M salary

5.9-1.6 = 4.3M. This deal saves Arizona 4.3M in payroll while acquiring a #1 goalie for the upcoming season. 50% retention on hjalm would have been a 3.9M difference.

Caphit is irrelevant to the coyotes unless they are looking to spend MORE which doesn't seem relevant at this point. Andersen having a 5M Caphit doesn't really contribute to this conversation as the coyotes would only be paying 1M of it.

Signing bonuses were paid out on July 1st, 2020

Who paid Hjalmarsson's signing bonus?

Arizona? Hopefully? Who else would have paid his bonus??

Then why doesn't that figure into your analysis of what Arizona would be "saving" versus what they would be paying in 2020-2021?

By the way, this year the off-season doesn't start until October 9, so nobody's paid anybody's signing bonuses yet.

Zz

Yeah no, they have been paid out so you are talking out of your ass. A simple google search would have confirmed that for you.

Hjalm is owed 2M in salary over the 2020-2021 season. He's been paid 2M already in signing bonuses. Hopefully that clears that up for you because that can't be anymore clear.

Apparently you have been arguing this whole time clueless to the fact that Andersen has had his 4M signing bonus paid even though it's been at the top of the post the entire time.

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/nhl-will-still-pay-300-million-in-signing-bonuses-despite-shortened-season-per-report/

Whether the bonuses have been paid or not doesn't affect my point because I covered that eventuality in my earlier comment. Let's do it again:

Assume bonuses have been paid.

Without the trade, Arizona owes Hjalmarsson $2 million and Kuemper $3.5 million.

With the trade, Arizona owes Toronto $500,000 (assuming Hjalmarsson's $2 million bonus is credited towards the retention), Andersen $1 million and Hjalmarsson's replacement somewhere around $1 million. So that's $3 million, not $39 or $4.3 million.

Now let's look at value. You say Arizona is "acquiring a #1 goalie for the upcoming season" as if this is a benefit of the trade. They already have one. If you were honest, you'd say that "this results in Arizona DE-acquiring a #1 goalie (Kuemper) for the 2021-2022 season." Even assuming Andersen and Kuemper are equivalent, that exchange alone is a minus for Arizona. And you laughably have them adding Hjalmarsson, retaining 50% on him, and adding one of the very few picks they have in this year's draft. That trade is moronic.

Newbies shouldn't say vets are talking out of their ass. It just makes you look like one.