How much do you value Mantha? Does Stevie Y value him as a top 30 player in the league

ill give him credit for the partial seasons, when there are full seasons to base them on.

Mantha is easily Detroit's most talented player and before the Pneumothorax it looked like he was starting to breakout. A lot of people don't think Mantha has much value as littlejerryseinfeld likes to point out whenever Mantha's name pop up here on CapFriendly.com. But outside opinions really matter. Yes, Detroit fans here do overvalue Mantha. Detroit doesn't have a lot of talent on their NHL roster. So of course we are going to put more value on the few good players we have. Domi is on the market and has been for a while and since Montreal hasn't been able to move him my guess is no teams have met Montreal's asking price. That being said why would his value change for Detroit to be able to flip him at the TDL? Maybe if Detroit was a playoff team they could afford to take on the flip him at the TDL trade but if he doesn't workout or Detroit can't get their asking price they are screwed just like they were in this years lottery. Domi has a very similar game too Larkin but Domi is older and not as good. Currently they need goal scorers and an LD or two. Since Detroit has no plans to trade Mantha and he said in an interview done during the COVID 19 break that he is looking forward to signing a long term deal with Detroit. The only way I see Detroit trading him is with a massive overpay.

I don't see a long term fit for Domi either, he seems to be a better center than a winger and I would not keep him at center over Suzuki or KK, Danault is the question mark I guess, he is one of the most underrated two way players in the game but his offense is the weakest part of his game. Couple years from now he will be our 3C and with Poehling coming will we really need him? I still believe that KK has huge upside and would not trade him unless you have a true 1C coming back. I too worry about Caufield being a one trick pony. Time will tell I guess. All I'm really getting at here is that the ask for Mantha is way more than I would want to give up. The proposal you have above is an overpayment in my opinion, but often to get what you want and need especially in division you have to overpay.

seasons are not measured over the last 82 games! just look at the last 2 season stats for both Domi and Mantha

Mantha 110 Games played, 41 Goals, 45 Assists, 86 Points, 0.78 PPG and -15
Domi 153 Games played, 45 Goals, 71 Assists, 115 Points, 0.75 PPG and is a +17

I think value wise they are pretty even. Even their advanced stats are similar!

check out the links for both

Domi

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/domima01-advanced.html

Mantha

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/manthan01-advanced.html

A 1 for 1 trad is equal value but neither team does it so a trade would never happen

He may, but there's no way of knowing what Stevie values his players as. Most anybody who watches Mantha will tell you he is elite and drives any line he plays on. His output has not hit 50 pts as people like to note, but consider he was at 38 in 43 (72 pt pace) this year on a historically bad Detroit team.

My thought process with that post was that a prospect is always a gamble. If it's perceived that Caufield's ceiling is what Mantha already is, then you're taking a calculated risk (from both ends) in making this deal: trading a known for an unknown who isn't expected to be better than the known player. The pick(s) that comes along with Caufield gives some balance to the equation.

I know... that's the problem, I've been trying to find a third party for Domi (I think he'd shine in TOR - but that's too much of a mess to think about). He's an underrated speedster, I can see him fitting nicely in EDM or VGK - for the sake of trading outside the division). MTL also needs goalscoring, but they have some really interesting LD prospects, more so than they've had in quite a while.
Romanov would be a lock for MTL, but Struble and Norlinder could be really solid prospects -- time will tell

I'd be ready to overpay for Mantha. His size is an added bonus. I'd agree that size is not everything, but look at how useful Armia has been to this team. They could definitely use another similar sized player up front. (Or, I guess hope for KK to continue bulking up and Poehling to eventually make the team)

Well hopefully next season hence why Detroit wouldn’t want to sell him as a “sub 50 point winger”.

I was referencing pace. I’ve never dismissed Domi as being invaluable but rather it makes no sense for Detroit since if we were to trade it would be for someone younger not the same age. I’m not even going to get in the 2 season argument with Domi/Mantha because people can not pick anything (eg Domi’s outlier season, prorated points for Mantha, etc)

Caufield is not a one trick pony this year in the NCAA he had 19 Goals and 17 Assists for 36 points in 36 games AS a freshman!

Detroit and Montreal just aren't very good trade partners right now besides being in the same division both teams are looking for the same things. Detroit just needs more of if it while Montreal is in the playoffs.

1. I agree that Detroit wants younger players for "older" players and did note that neither team makes this type of trade but Value wise they are equals.

2. Even if you use both players 5 year career stats which is a good thing they came into the league in the same year.

Mantha has played 260 out of a possible 410 games
Domi has played 375 Games making Domi more durable

Manth's stat line is 84 Goals, 89 Assists, 173 points .66 PPG and a -12
Domi's stat line is 81 Goals, 170 Assists, 251 points .67 PPG and is a +4

Domi's durability balances out the advantage Mantha has in size. It is fair to say that these 2 players while their styles are different actually have about the same value but for other reasons outside of value neither team would do a 1 for 1 trade. But I would also think that IF one of the 2 were offered to the other team say (Domi was offered to Detroit for 1st 2022 + 2022 2nd + A prospect) You would have to think that Detroit would take that deal if it meant next year they lined up

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha
Zandina-Domi-Timashov

Or Montreal vise versa

Sorry not sure why my phone is correcting knit pick to not pick so one of my last statements may have come off as dismissing Domi’s value. My stance on trading Mantha would be for a blue chip prospect to get younger and not lateral with Domi. The best trading destination for Domi is probably Buffalo if Montreal wanted/needed to ship him off.

Domi does not NEED to be traded but he is our biggest trade chip right now as We currently have basically 4 #2 center's (Danault, Suzuki, Domi, KK (if he is actually healthy and takes a step forward in the play-ins)) with both Suzuki and KK having potential to be 1A and 1B centers. With guys like Poehling, Evans, Olofsson, Ikonen, Hillis and Stapley also pushing for a roster spot in the next 1-3 years our center depth is overflowing.

Like you I don't see Detroit and Montreal as good partners as like you stated they are looking for close to the same things. Some Buffalo fans do not see the value of having Domi as 2C and get really P***** at the suggestion lol. That is their loss though, other teams that could use a guy like Domi are Dallas, NYR (possibly), Minnesota, Colorado (IMO I would prefer Domi over Kadri but that's is probably just a bias towards former leafs LOL) Maybe Winnipeg and quite a few teams in the Pacific but some can't afford it due to cap issues

Habs & hab fans CANT afford MANTHA..sorry...that offer posted won't get you glendening or helm..or maybe them....but both big Moe..

Moe costs elite prospect like Caufield..Poehling..Suzuki..& 1st rd pick unprotected unconditional to start...so...yea..not gonna happen

How about Caufield + KK + Suzuki + 2021 1st round pick (unprotected) for Bertuzzi + 2022 7th round pick (unprotected)

For bert & pick alone? ..i hate to lose bert he's a damn bulldog we need badly but if that's the offer we have to accept....if u talking Bert & Mantha plus pick..no deal...plus any draft pick must be 2022 not 2021 to Detroit

No, I mean only for Bertuzzi and the 7th round pick. C'mon give me credit, adding Mantha would just be silly !!
Maybe if Montreal adds Romanov and Norlinder, would that work?

You may be right, but I think that Caufield has tremendous upside, way more than Mantha will ever have. That's why I thought that it was weird to see Mantha for Caufield and picks.

Are you saying 2021 1st + Suzuki + KK + Caufield for Bertuzzi + 7th? If so that has to be the biggest overpayment I’ve ever seen on these boards.

Sorry, I was just being annoyingly sarcastic towards @Mike

Thank goodness. I didn’t know if I didn’t to call you ambulance or not.

Ignorance is bliss not knowing mantha or bert real value..guess yas don't actually watch hockey..but all good

No, that’s called being a “homer”. Good luck trying to sell it as anything else.

Nope it's called watching every game listening to ppl who collect nhl paychecks who know talent & getting my info from RELIABLE sources & 35 years experience of evaluating..but good luck with yours...blocked