What in the actual **** is going on? I'm losing my mind. Murray is worth about a second rounder right now. Why would a wild fan give ten pieces for a guy who lost his starting job and had a sv% in the 800's on a team with 3 goaltenders and cap issues???????

That's a little harsh. I would have thought Pittsburgh would try and get more than just a second for Murray. Regardless of this past season. He's young, just hitting his prime years, and a two-time Stanley Cup champion. That still carries some weight in trade negotiations. Maybe I did over value Murray, but I'm not convinced his values that low.

Nonetheless I'll adjust accordingly. Thank you.

Overpayments. Can do way better in the UFA G market.

Theres not "way better" in the UFA market but that doesn't change much.

Let's just start with this. I don't want Murray. He's performed poorly. In fact, Stalock has had a better year than Murray. I'd only accept Murray is they gave us a ridiculously low offer we can't refuse. But this offer is WAY beyond anything I'd give Pittsburgh for Murray. Hell, I wouldn't even give them Menell for Murray let alone this package.

The team is at cap. They have to resign Schultz, probably McCann, a bunch of little pieces and mainly Tristan Jarry. That is about 8 million needed. They can let Sheary and Rodriguez walk, saves 5. Murray is the last 3. He's an RFA they wont sign. He has no term, no place and that means no value. Min is a decent location for him, but you have to remove 3 pieces minimum.

That was the less harsh version as the shock wore off.

If you could ditch Dubnyk's last year off on like Detroit, and get Murray for a second and sign him 4 mil x 2 years. Min would do that.

Edit, maybe 3 x 1

If we do a 2nd, it would probably be a 2021. Draft's too loaded this year not to keep top rounds picks. But honestly, I might even have to say a 3rd round to convince to take him. Because we really don't need to take Murray. I'm already hoping that they put Kakko as the starter next year. He looks poised and ready for the big show. That means you can either bury Dubynk in the AHL or Stalock (unless, like you said, we dump Dubs off somewhere for a year). That's my plan, if I was Guerin, at least. So I really don't see the need to trade for Murray when we might have a better solution sitting down in Iowa. Just seems like a waste of asset management.

In depth and reasonable. I defer to the fan who knows.

Edit I hope Kaapo Kaakonen plays just for the confusion.

Because Dubnyk is untradeable, no one's taking him. I doubt even Detroit would. So what then? Buy him out? Bury him? That would still cost this team money. We already need to buy out Rask, so it's not worth it.

Therefore you gotta keep him on the roster and wait out the final year of his contract. He's also going to be 35 next season. I'm starting to see a trend here.

For all the screaming by Wild fans about wanting centers, that wasn't this teams number one issue.

Goaltending was.

Once again our elite defense was in the top 5 teams in the league in limiting high-danger scoring chances. And yet, somehow, we ranked 30th out of 31 teams for goaltending. Gee, I wonder why.

I grant you that Stalock was great this year, and Kahkonen looks highly promising, but again, we still have the problem of Dubnyk getting in the way.

Guess who is moveable. Stalock. Shocking right.

You don't want Murray, that's fine. But at least give me the courtesy of saying why I do.

1) Age

Both Dubnyk and Stalock are over 30. 34 and 33 respectively. Murray, 26. Kahkonen, 24

Ride out a year of Dub's and Murray, giving Kahkonen another season to mature his game. Then having a tandem duo of Murray(27)/Kahkonen(25) from there on.

Hmmm, seems we just got younger. One of which seem to have this....

2) Experience

A goalies prime years are typically considered to be between the ages of 25 to 32. There are a few instances when they break into the league far earlier than that, but that is few and far between. Even rarer to actually win a Stanley Cup before the age of 25. Twice. Murray's 26 and already has 5 years of professional NHL experience under his belt. But by all means, let's only concern ourselves with this last bad year that he's just had. Yep, stick a fork in him folks, he's done. There's no chance in hell he could possibly bounce back from that at all. Not a one.

3) Defense

Murray would have the benefit of coming from a team with league average defense to a team with a top 5 defense. That couldn't help Murray at all could it?

Is trading for Murray a risk? Sure, but a calculated one.

Revised trade offer....

Donato + 2021 2nd rounder for Murray.

I feel like Guerin just fleeced Rutherford. But whatever, small price to pay I guess.

1st, 2nd, Donato, Menell, Beckman for Murray is an overpay, but at least you put actual thought into what you are doing and where you are going with it in the future. However, does it make up for the grand slam that Guerin hit in the Zucker trade? Rutherford still can't sit down after that one.

I would be happy with the 1st and one of Menell/Beckman. That drops the 2nd, Donato and the other of Menell/Beckman.


Partially related... It makes me lol when people talk about Murray not having value because he had a bad year, while saying Lehner and Ulmark and Mrazek are better options. Lehner, a decade of seasons with 1 good season... yeah, go with him.

I'd happily trade the 2022 1st + Menell for Murray. That seems much more fair in terms of trade value.

Despite being a couple years off, the 1st is actually more valuable because of it in this instance. With Crosby and Malkin on their last hurrah's, having an additional 1st in 2022 could go a long way to helping ease the Pens upcoming rebuild.

With Addison coming over in the Zucker trade, which is great for us because he's a really nice safety net should we move Dumba, the Pens don't necessarily have any defensive prospects of note in their system. With Addison's arrival, Menell is also expendable for us. Menell is close to knocking on the NHL door, was recently an AHL All Star this past season and is generally considered to have top-four upside. I think he fits the Penguins current needs more than a possible scorer like Beckman.

Disregard this post...

Murray has only had streaks of brilliance and the Penguins have gotten lucky since they've been during their cup runs. Otherwise he's been mediocre at best.

If we trade for a goalie I'd rather target Georgiev. He's looked very promising and the Rangers blue line is more geared towards offense. Greenway for Georgiev sounds about right in terms of value, plus New York's coach is a father figure to Greenway (coached him in college). All that said we need to see what we have with Kahkonen first. He won AHL goalie of the year after all...

2 things.

1) Georgiev is not the goalie that on the out's in New York. It's Lundqvist. They're not going to trade either Georgiev or Shesterkin. Besides, he doesn't interest me. I much prefer Kahkonen over Georgiev to be honest.

2) Murray's postseason experience combined with relatively young age and stellar play (postseason) are why I want him. Of his five years in the league, he has only finished below a .900 save percentage once. This year. Before this, his worst year was during the 17-18 season, where he finished with a .907 save percentage. While that isn't great, it's not terrible either. The rest he was all .910+, which are good years. All this while playing behind a league average defense, it was average during his two cup runs, and is still average now. It was also so injury riddled this year that it was a veritable AHL convention back there.

Between Murray and Jarry, Murray faced the more difficult shots from farther out then Jarry did. In other words, Jarry faced the easier workload. This is where having a top defense in the league matters. On the Wild, chances are Murray doesn't face those types of shots as often.

In today's modern NHL you need to have a 1a/1b goalie tandem if your going to try and win the cup and especially if you don't have a high-octane offense to outscore your opponent. You also need an elite defense. So checkmark on that one.

Kahkonen certainly looks promising and seems to fit the bill, so far. But he has yet to truly break into the league and his inexperience is a major issue in regards to postseason play and or chances.

So, whose the second?

I don't want a stop-gap post Dubnyk, and I don't want another goaltender over the age of 30. I want someone whose relatively close in age to Kahkonen but who has experience and can help Kappo push himself to be better and vise versa by internal competition. That leaves us with two choices, Lehner or Murray. One of these hasn't won a damn thing, the other has his name on the cup, twice.