Murray is worth AT LEAST a late 1st rounder

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Créé par: TheGuyInTheChair

Équipe: 2019-20 Penguins de Pittsburgh

Date de création initiale: 7 mai 2020

Publié: 7 mai 2020

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

These trades are pretty good comparables IMO

Career Stats: Matt Murray (25) 199 GP 117 W .914 sv% 2 Stanley Cups

2013: Cory Schneider (27) 98 GP 55 W .927 sv% | 2013 1st Rounder #9 (Bo Horvat)

2015: Robin Lehner (24) 86 GP 30 W .914 sv% | 2015 1st Rounder #21 (Colin White)
David Legwand (Cap dump)

Cam Talbot (28) 57 GP 33 W .931 sv% | 2015 2nd Rounder #57 (Jonas Siegenthaler)
2015 7th Rounder #209 (Ziyat Paigin) 2015 3rd Rounder #79 (Sergei Zborovskiy)
2015 7th Rounder #184 (Adam Huska)

2017: Antti Raanta (28) 94 GP 47 W .917 sv% Derek Stepan | 2017 1st Rounder #7 (Lias Andersson)
Anthony Deangelo

2018: Philipp Grubauer (27) 101 GP 43 W .923 sv% | 2018 2nd Rounder #47 (Kody Clark)
Brooks Orpik (Cap dump)

Enfoui

Casey DeSmith: 175 000 $ (1 250 000 $)

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2020
2021
2022

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
25	81 500 000 $	80 181 625 $	132 500 $	850 000 $	1 318 375 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Zucker, Jason 5 500 000 $5 500 000 $ AG, AD M-NTC UFA - 4	Crosby, Sidney 8 700 000 $8 700 000 $ C NMC UFA - 6	Sheary, Conor 3 000 000 $3 000 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1
Guentzel, Jake 4 500 000 $4 500 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 5	Malkin, Evgeni 9 500 000 $9 500 000 $ C NMC UFA - 3	Rust, Bryan 3 500 000 $3 500 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 3
	Bjugstad, Nick 2 050 000 $2 050 000 $ C, AD UFA - 2	Hörnqvist, Patric 5 300 000 $5 300 000 $ AD NTC UFA - 4
McCann, Jared 1 250 000 $1 250 000 $ C, AG UFA - 1	Blueger, Teddy 750 000 $750 000 $ C, AG UFA - 2	Tanev, Brandon 3 500 000 $3 500 000 $ AG, AD M-NTC UFA - 6
Aston-Reese, Zach 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2	Rodrigues, Evan 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ AG, C UFA - 1	Simon, Dominik 750 000 $750 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 1
Marleau, Patrick 700 000 $700 000 $ AG, C UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Dumoulin, Brian 4 100 000 $4 100 000 $ DG M-NTC UFA - 4	Letang, Kris 7 250 000 $7 250 000 $ DD M-NTC, NMC UFA - 3	Murray, Matt 3 750 000 $3 750 000 $ G UFA - 1
Pettersson, Marcus 874 125 $874 125 $ DG UFA - 1	Marino, John 925 000 $925 000 $ (850 000 $$850K) DD UFA - 2	Jarry, Tristan 675 000 $675 000 $ G UFA - 1
Johnson, Jack 3 250 000 $3 250 000 $ DG UFA - 4	Schultz, Justin 5 500 000 $5 500 000 $ DD M-NTC UFA - 1
Riikola, Juuso 850 000 $850 000 $ DG UFA - 1	Ruhwedel, Chad 700 000 $700 000 $ DD UFA - 2

7 mai 2020 à 19 h 52

#26

Mat

Shesterkin_Next_GOAT

Rejoint: juill. 2019

Messages: 125

Mentions "j'aime": 11

Quoting: Xqb15

You didn’t really say Stanley Cups are insignificant did you? That’s the whole reason they play. Murray outside of last seasons sweep has won 2 Cups in the last 4 seasons (completed), has a .921 save percentage in the playoffs. But that .899 is awfully nasty and comparing him to dudes that are 35 and 40 isn’t fair either. For what it is worth I wouldn’t trade a 1st for him.

again…

… to determine a player's value

7 mai 2020 à 19 h 58

#27

littlejerryseinfeld

Rejoint: nov. 2017

Messages: 27,963

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Quoting: Jesus

Was that because of the goalies or the team around them

Horrible asset management. Including trading 1sts for goalies

exo2769 a aimé ceci.

7 mai 2020 à 19 h 58

#28

littlejerryseinfeld

Rejoint: nov. 2017

Messages: 27,963

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Quoting: pharrow

yeah COL really sucks.

Honestly, He's worth atleast a 1st. Just wait though. Let FA happen and let teams go out there with no goalie as there aren't enough to go around. Then they can realize they need help.

I'm sorry, when did colorado trade a first for a goalie?

7 mai 2020 à 19 h 59

#29

Xqb15

Rejoint: déc. 2019

Messages: 2,586

Mentions "j'aime": 1,142

Quoting: Mat

again…

… to determine a player's value

Gotcha. But playoff performance IS something you have to factor especially goalies and in particular a young goalie. Using recent bias 14 months ago Binnington gets you next to nothing a cup run later it’s a different story. But yeah I get what you’re saying, I wouldn’t give a 1st for him either.

7 mai 2020 à 20 h 3

#30

Mat

Shesterkin_Next_GOAT

Rejoint: juill. 2019

Messages: 125

Mentions "j'aime": 11

Quoting: Xqb15

yeah for binnington it's different… but Murray is a totaly different issue

7 mai 2020 à 20 h 58

#31

TheGuyInTheChair

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: déc. 2017

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Mentions "j'aime": 581

Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld

I'm sorry, when did colorado trade a first for a goalie?

If Orpik's buyout wasn't apart of that trade it would've been Grubauer for either a late first or early second. Stop selectively ignoring information to support your argument

mhockey91 a aimé ceci.

7 mai 2020 à 21 h 3

#32

TheGuyInTheChair

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: déc. 2017

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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld

Horrible asset management. Including trading 1sts for goalies

So you think if Buffalo had Colin White they would've made the playoffs? I'd say these trades are mostly even except for the Schneider one but they did get a few decent years out of him.

7 mai 2020 à 21 h 15

#33

littlejerryseinfeld

Rejoint: nov. 2017

Messages: 27,963

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Quoting: Jesus

If Orpik's buyout wasn't apart of that trade it would've been Grubauer for either a late first or early second. Stop selectively ignoring information to support your argument

So in other words, colorado didnt trade a first for a goalie

7 mai 2020 à 21 h 19

#34

TheGuyInTheChair

Démarrer sujet

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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld

So in other words, colorado didnt trade a first for a goalie

Yeah but don't you think that perhaps if Colorado hadn't helped out the Capitals by buying out Orpik's contract which was $5.5 million in its last year they would've had to give up more assets in order to get Grubauer? Perhaps a higher draft pick or adding a prospect?

7 mai 2020 à 21 h 32

#35

littlejerryseinfeld

Rejoint: nov. 2017

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Quoting: Jesus

But they didnt

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8 mai 2020 à 9 h 37

#36

exo2769

Rejoint: juill. 2015

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Quoting: mhockey91

Thank you for this much needed post

Come on mhockey. You're a smart guy. Grubauer for a 2nd and a cap dump...this somehow means Murrays' going to get a 1st? Raanta isn't even the major piece in that trade. Stepan is in that trade. Legwand was a $3M cap dump. You know what costs a 1st??? A $6M cap dump named Marleau. I mean you gotta go literally 7 years to find a "comparable" that you hope fits and it was a terrible trade.

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8 mai 2020 à 9 h 43

#37

exo2769

Rejoint: juill. 2015

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Modifié 8 mai 2020 à 9 h 50

Quoting: Jesus

If Orpik's buyout wasn't apart of that trade it would've been Grubauer for either a late first or early second. Stop selectively ignoring information to support your argument

Quoting: Jesus

So you think if Buffalo had Colin White they would've made the playoffs? I'd say these trades are mostly even except for the Schneider one but they did get a few decent years out of him.

It seems like every PIT fan on here is selectively ignoring information to support their argument. None of these are very good comparisons. There's a $3M cap dump in that trade. TOR just gave up a 1st for a $6M cap dump. That's a huge piece of that trade you're literally ignoring. You need to go back literally 7 years to a real goalie for a 1st rounder...and that was a terrible trade.

8 mai 2020 à 12 h 9

#38

Pens3lieve

Hockey IQ

Rejoint: mai 2019

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Quoting: exo2769

I agree with @mhockey91 . Murray's value is at least a late first. That is a correct statement. Will he get a late first in a trade? probably not.

The comparative value demonstrated--Murray=(theoretical package traded for Murray)=/>(a late 1st round pick).

Pit really has no need for a late first. They would just trade it away. Pit has other needs that could theoretically be met with a Murray/jarry trade--which I would prefer not to do until next offseason so Pit has a bigger sample size to evaluate. Murray is worth a late first, but a theoretical Murray trade this offseason would not include a first coming back to PIT--and it shouldn't. The pens are in win-now mode, and should be till Geno/Sid/Tanger hang up the skates.

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8 mai 2020 à 13 h 0

#39

exo2769

Rejoint: juill. 2015

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Modifié 8 mai 2020 à 13 h 43

Quoting: Pens3lieve

I agree with you that Murray has value. Sincerely I do believe that. It drove me bananas to see Lehner not get a 1st. I did and do think that's what he should have got. He didn't though. The list at the top of this post are not good comps though. Some of these aren't even close. Stepan was AZ's #1 center for 2 and a half years. The #1C role is the most highly valued position in all of hockey. He's the centerpiece of that trade. Not Raanta...a 1 year starter and 2 year backup.

I think @keep_ups12 made a great point in another post. Maximize his value with OTT. Then use those picks to either A.) shed cap or B.) acquire a plyers with the other team retaining.

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8 mai 2020 à 14 h 36

#40

mhockey91

Rejoint: juin 2015

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Quoting: exo2769

None of the goalies that have been traded have been as proven as Murray though. 2 cups seriously boosts his value. GMs will remember his clutch playoff performances. I think Lenher should’ve got a first as well at deadline, but like you said the goalie market was weak. I don’t know why Carolina went all in for defensemen when their biggest need is a goalie. I think what will help Murray is his perceived value is higher due to his resume. Like @Pens3lieve said... even if Murray is worth a late first, he probably won’t bring that in as a return. Pens have other needs to address. I’m still on the trade Jarry bandwagon. Dude played 20 good games. Why trade low on Murray when you can trade high on Jarry?

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