This is an attempt at making a Nylander trade work without including Newhook or Byram. The package given up is large and involves a tonne of futures, but as shown below we can make it work nonetheless.
For reference in this link is an Toronto AGM based on the same Nylander trade. Toronto trades Nylander to make room for signing Pietrangelo: https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1726703
***** 2020 OFFSEASON *****
Roster moves:
- UFA: Namestnikov, Nieto, Wilson, Barberio.
- Resign: Burakovsky, Nichuskin, Kamenev, Graves.
- Promote Byram.
- Trade Zadorov for picks.
- Trade for Nylander and Andersen (see AGM trades below).
***** 2021 OFFSEASON *****
Expansion Draft Protection (7+3+1):
- Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, Nylander, Burakovsky, Donskoi;
- Makar, Girard, Graves;
- Francouz.
Exposed: Compher, Nichuskin, Johnson (waives NMC), Andersen (exposed but doesn't agree to sign as an UFA with Seattle as he would rather resign with a top contender).
Roster Moves:
- Compher selected by Seattle.
- Promote Newhook, Bowers, O'Connor.
- Resign Andersen (~$5m)
- Trade Johnson (w/ picks)
- UFA signing/trade for: a 4th line winger, and two 3rd pairing Dmen (eg. 2 Nemeth types who are good at Pk'ing)
- Resign Makar (+$7m raise) and Landeskog (+$2.5m raise). Their raises will be about $9.5m combined.
Raises for Makar and Landeskog can be covered by the moves below. (These moves total ~$12m which is $2.5m over what is needed for Makar/Landeskog, so there is some margin to be more generous on roster additions if needed).
- Compher ($3.5m) ---> Newhook (ELC) = Saves $2.5m
- Calvert ($2.85m) ----> O'Connor (900k) = Saves $2m
- Bellemare ($1.8m) ---> $1m 4th liner UFA = Saves $800k.
- Ian Cole ($4.25m) ---> $1.5m #6D in UFA =Saves $2.75m
- Johnson ($6m) -----> $2m #5D in UFA = saves $4m
- Note that there's also the chance that some of the 4th line/3rd pairing roles could be filled cheaply by ELC's rather than UFA's (eg. Kovalenko/Ranta/Beaucage/Zhuravlyov/Helleson/etc).
What do you expect to get for Nylander? If anything this is a slight overpayment by Colorado.
The trade includes:
- NHL-ready top 4 RHD prospect (Timmins)
- NHL-ready middle 6 prospect (Kaut)
- former 10th overall 3C (Jost)
- 1st
- 2nd
- Goalie swap for $1.7m in cap saving.
- Not to mention an overall cap saving of $7m+ which not a lot of teams can pull off while also wanting to give up tonnes of futures. (Note that this trade is made by Toronto to make room for Pietrangelo, as shown in this AGM: https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/325940&post_id=1406561)
- Grubauer for Anderson is fair, given the salary difference.
- Timmins + Kaut + Jost + 1st + 2nd is probably a slight overpayment for Nylander.
This type trade makes sense for Leafs but think it's an overpayment by the Rockies. Rockies just might be better trying to sign a UFA winger(if possible) and keep their assets instead of trading for Nylander.
As you suggest the Leaf get cap relief to sign a UFA themselves and futures.
This type trade makes sense for Leafs but think it's an overpayment by the Rockies. Rockies just might be better trying to sign a UFA winger(if possible) and keep their assets instead of trading for Nylander.
As you suggest the Leaf get cap relief to sign a UFA themselves and futures.
This type trade makes sense for Leafs but think it's an overpayment by the Rockies. Rockies just might be better trying to sign a UFA winger(if possible) and keep their assets instead of trading for Nylander.
As you suggest the Leaf get cap relief to sign a UFA themselves and futures.
Yeah it certainly makes sense for the Leafs. There are also only a few teams with the cap space and cashflow to actually take on a significant amount of salary, and their cap situation also means that if they need to move players for capspace they're unlikely to get full value. With those factors in mind a trade like this would be tremendous value (assuming that they are able to sign Pietrangelo).
I think Sakic will be loathe to hand out big contracts to expensive 30+ UFA forwards. Those types of contracts can go sour in a hurry, just need to look at Zuccarello most recently. I'm not either a particularly big fan of any of this years UFA's. Hall only has 3 55+ seasons in 10 years and wants to get paid for one 90+ season. The other forwards just look in risk of turning into Zuccarello 2.0. Of the UFA's I'd actually be more inclined to resign Namestnikov. That said, I think the likeliest route is that we acquire a forward via trade, because there should be plenty of teams (eg. Tampa) looking to offload some contracts to deal with cap issues in a flat cap offseason.
Yeah it certainly makes sense for the Leafs. There are also only a few teams with the cap space and cashflow to actually take on a significant amount of salary, and their cap situation also means that if they need to move players for capspace they're unlikely to get full value. With those factors in mind a trade like this would be tremendous value (assuming that they are able to sign Pietrangelo).
I think Sakic will be loathe to hand out big contracts to expensive 30+ UFA forwards. Those types of contracts can go sour in a hurry, just need to look at Zuccarello most recently. I'm not either a particularly big fan of any of this years UFA's. Hall only has 3 55+ seasons in 10 years and wants to get paid for one 90+ season. The other forwards just look in risk of turning into Zuccarello 2.0. Of the UFA's I'd actually be more inclined to resign Namestnikov. That said, I think the likeliest route is that we acquire a forward via trade, because there should be plenty of teams (eg. Tampa) looking to offload some contracts to deal with cap issues in a flat cap offseason.
Like your explanation. There certainly is an opportunity for a good team with cap space like the Avs to pick up a cap player and get immediate help.
Killorn might have Colorado on his "trade to" list, and he might be come cheap as Tampa needs to dump cap.
Nylander. Let's say the trade is Jost, Timmins and a first. The Leaf could sign maybe two UFA RHD Dman...let's say DeMelo and Gudas at the cost of Nylander. Have Jost. and cross their fingers on Timmins and the first rounder. As a Leaf I would probably do that at cost of four years of Nylander.
Actually the only thing in here I don’t like is the Grubauer swap. Good explanation of the process.
Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated.
I'd prefer to keep Grubauer as well, but I first tried this trade in the AGM with a balanced approach from Toronto's perspective (link in the description) and I thought that a goalie swap would be something that would help get the deal over the line. A goalie swap and $1.7m in caphit would be a worthwhile trade-off if it meant not having to include one of Newhook or Byram.
What do you expect to get for Nylander? If anything this is a slight overpayment by Colorado.
The trade includes:
- NHL-ready top 4 RHD prospect (Timmins)
- NHL-ready middle 6 prospect (Kaut)
- former 10th overall 3C (Jost)
- 1st
- 2nd
- Goalie swap for $1.7m in cap saving.
- Not to mention an overall cap saving of $7m+ which not a lot of teams can pull off while also wanting to give up tonnes of futures. (Note that this trade is made by Toronto to make room for Pietrangelo, as shown in this AGM: https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/325940&post_id=1406561)
- Grubauer for Anderson is fair, given the salary difference.
- Timmins + Kaut + Jost + 1st + 2nd is probably a slight overpayment for Nylander.
Quoting: TheJonSnow
I usually agree with this statement but every single piece going to Toronto is quality.
The only quality here I see that benefits us is Grubs and Timmins. Everything else is so useless
Its gonna be super late. There won't be to much.
Leafs would like picks but its not their main priority.
You don't just trade 23 year old 30 goal scorers for things you don't need
Timmins is good but not near Nylander's value do I don't do this trade at all
The only quality here I see that benefits us is Grubs and Timmins. Everything else is so useless
Kaut is a recent 16th overall pick who's on the verge of making the (deep) roster on a cup contender. He got his 9 games this season and looked good, and I wouldn't be surprised if he started the season on the 3rd line rather than 4th, or even if he finished the season riding shotgun on the 2nd line.
Jost is better suited to playing 3C than Kerfoot, given that he's much better defensively. Jost can play both PK and PP; is younger (has more potential); and has a caphit about ~$2m lower than Kerfoot. Needless to say far from "useless".
As for a 1st and 2nd, those are hardly "useless" pieces. Toronto out of all teams especially should know the value of a 1st rounder since that's what you paid Carolina to get rid of Marleau!
Its gonna be super late. There won't be to much.
Leafs would like picks but its not their main priority.
You don't just trade 23 year old 30 goal scorers for things you don't need
Timmins is good but not near Nylander's value do I don't do this trade at all
The premise of this trade is that Pietrangelo would be signed. In which case Toronto's "need" is capspace.
Moving a player like Nylander requires two things:
1. A team capable of taking on $7m+ in capspace; and
2. A team willing to give up big futures for Nylander.
Point 1 will rule out a large number of teams due to cap constraints. Point 2 will further rule out many of the teams with capspace who are rebuilding and loathe to trade huge pieces of their future, such as their (high) 1st round pick. Therefore you're looking at only a handful of teams capable of giving you capspace and futures. Colorado has both, as well as NHL-ready prospects that can contribute immediately on ELC's.
Kaut is a recent 16th overall pick who's on the verge of making the (deep) roster on a cup contender. He got his 9 games this season and looked good, and I wouldn't be surprised if he started the season on the 3rd line rather than 4th, or even if he finished the season riding shotgun on the 2nd line.
Jost is better suited to playing 3C than Kerfoot, given that he's much better defensively. Jost can play both PK and PP; is younger (has more potential); and has a caphit about ~$2m lower than Kerfoot. Needless to say far from "useless".
As for a 1st and 2nd, those are hardly "useless" pieces. Toronto out of all teams especially should know the value of a 1st rounder since that's what you paid Carolina to get rid of Marleau!
Quoting: Richard88
The premise of this trade is that Pietrangelo would be signed. In which case Toronto's "need" is capspace.
Moving a player like Nylander requires two things:
1. A team capable of taking on $7m+ in capspace; and
2. A team willing to give up big futures for Nylander.
Point 1 will rule out a large number of teams due to cap constraints. Point 2 will further rule out many of the teams with capspace who are rebuilding and loathe to trade huge pieces of their future, such as their (high) 1st round pick. Therefore you're looking at only a handful of teams capable of giving you capspace and futures. Colorado has both, as well as NHL-ready prospects that can contribute immediately on ELC's.
Moving a player like Nylander does a lot more things
your statements make no sense. When we trade Nylander were not guaranteed Pietrangelo.
So we just traded Nylander for nothing.
Moving a player like Nylander does a lot more things
your statements make no sense. When we trade Nylander were not guaranteed Pietrangelo.
So we just traded Nylander for nothing.
What I meant is that Toronto would have no reason to trade Nylander UNLESS they FIRST had signed Pietrangelo.
Then we WILL be over the cap. They won't even let us sign him
Aren't teams allowed to be temporarily over the cap ceiling in the offseason while making roster changes, especially around July 1st?
Even if not, they could simply "sign" Pietrangelo without announcing it, and pull the trigger on a Nylander trade immediately after, and then only announce the Pietrangelo signing after the Nylander trade. Both could go down on the same day.
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