Sorry Boomer, look at the calendar. It's 2019. Subban is far from competent. Getting Subban even for free and his 6.5m retained contract is still a massive overpayment. Keep the cap space, and the picks and spend the money on real NHLer in 2020.

Why is Subban at 6.5m not a good deal? He has one bad year on a team that's garbage and now all the sudden he isn't competent? Look at his career stats, Subban at 6.5 is a good deal!

Regardless of whether or not Subban is competent, I am pretty sure anyone that has watched the leafs even a little bit can recognize that he is certainly not the type of D-man that the leafs need.

Funny that you assume everyone wants Petro. I certainly don’t. I want Subban even less.

Yeah Subban is a terrible fit for the Leafs. He's bad defensively but makes the flashy play in the offensive zone (often leading to turnovers). Leafs need a defensively reliable RD, not another defensive liability.

I personally would be okay with getting Subban cheap. But not for Bracco and a 1st (I'm assuming the 2nd is a sweetener to take Ceci). But to answer your question, Subban is not good defensively and is on the serious decline. Last few years he has been playing sheltered minutes and a high Ozone start percentage. As said by Tensor, Leafs need good defensive guys. They're gonna score lots regardless.

I based the trade value off what NJ paid (5/6 D, 2-2nd rnd picks and a prospect) made one of the 2nds a late 1st to pay for the retention and Ceci take back, if Bracco was really ever gonna be anything we'd of seen some of him already (he's 22, not 19)

As for Subban the player, he was fantastic in Montreal (Put on a show, big hits, can carry the puck, heavy shot, solid community guy) traded to Nashville for all those reasons and pretty much was the same player - no cup after a seasons, couple injuries, Nashville had a couple of Dmen to fill that spot,. He got expensive.
Traded to the Devil's , teams not very good, he's at 85% health, there selling and are really at the beginnings of a solid rebuild through the draft, realistically they are 2/3 seasons out from playoff talk.

My belief/thought/hope for Subban on the Leafs would be that he would return to 90% of his former self for 2020-21, as for the remainder of this season if he's kinda hurt let him heal/fix him up, he'd be surrounded by star players in an enormous media market (he's literally built for the attention) on a team that plays a possession game.

My problem is that Subban not very good last year in Nash either. So would need him to go to 90% of his Montreal days. Not likely at his age. And again, he plays little defence. Toronto needs defensive defenseman not another pp specialist.

Believe or not Subban and Ceci have close to identical offensive stats and Ceci doesn't play the PP. The difference is plus/minus is Subban is 20 goals worse. Yeah it's just stats, but Ceci hasn't been bad for the Leafs and the Leafs want cap space next year not 6.5m clogging up the cap.
Strange post when the Leafs are sellers and getting picks, then to give away a 1st and 2nd and acquire a lousy cap and subjectively a lousy valued player seems very counter counter productive.

Subban 11yrs 675 gp 313 pts +35
Barrie. 9 yrs 517 gp 320 pts -71
Ceci 7 yrs 473 gp. 125 pts. -54

How are Subban and Ceci close?

You're right it isn't close at all. Subban 2 goals 3 assist, 5 points, minus 15. this season. Ceci 1 goal, 6 assist, 7 points plus 6. UFA Ceci makes a slight overpay at 4.5 this season but the Leafs have 4.5m next season to sign Dman. Subban even with your retention makes 6.5m this year and for the following two seasons. It's 2019...almost 2020. Subban is terrible value at now and in future and you want to give a first and second rounder and the superior Ceci to acquire this version of Subban.
Want to talk about the Barrie. He does get some PP time but is just 3 goals and 10 assists, for 13 points and is a minus 12. Sorry it's really mindless of folks to think Ceci is the problem on defence for the Leafs.

During Ceci's 7 yr career he has been a + player twice (including this season)
During Subban's 11yr career he has been a -player 4 times (including this season) that's a + player 7 seasons

Can't be basing value on a player over 30 games - if that was case than Nylander would have dealt for 5th rnd pick to be rid of his atrocious contract

Ceci has generally played big minutes on poor to average teams so it's logical he would be a minus player. Subban generally has played on average to good teams. The facts really don't stand up to this current edition Subban being value at 6.5m and giving up first and second rounder to acquire him. If you truly believe Subban is worth it a trade fine, but IMO the Leafs can spend 6.5m a lot better than Subban and keep their picks.

Sounds like when Ceci play big minutes his team performs poorly, when Subban plays big minutes his performs average to good

I wonder why that might be?

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Stop it. Like saying goalies on poor teams are bad goalies because their GAA is higher. I gave you an out in previous post. If you truly believe Subban is good value at 6.5m and to give up a first and second rounder, fine, I'll can appreciate your opinion. But you don't seem to want say....yep, I think the trade I proposed is good value for the Leaf, you want discuss nothing to do with current Subban.

I guess John Gibson is a pretty bad goalie too. Anaheim never makes playoffs and his numbers are average at best......
Even Freddy, has he even won a playoff round, and his numbers are hardly above league average. Must be a below average goalie if his team doesn't do anything.