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Tatar and Byron to EDM

Créé par: math731
Équipe: 2019-20 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 22 nov. 2019
Publié: 22 nov. 2019
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
TDL move if we're out
Transactions
EDM
  1. Byron, Paul
  2. Reilly, Mike
  3. Tatar, Tomas
Détails additionnels:
Byron would be perfect to play with McD and Tatar is a top 6 winger which EDM really needs
Rachats de contrats
Enfoui
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
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22 nov. 2019 à 16 h 7
#1
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Not sure if Broberg is worth taking on 2 bad contracts and giving up a PPG winger on a good contract + a speedy 3rd line winger.
22 nov. 2019 à 16 h 19
#2
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Not sure if Broberg is worth taking on 2 bad contracts and giving up a PPG winger on a good contract + a speedy 3rd line winger.


Broberg is absolutely not worth that
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22 nov. 2019 à 16 h 20
#3
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Not sure if Broberg is worth taking on 2 bad contracts and giving up a PPG winger on a good contract + a speedy 3rd line winger.


in this case, Manning would only be with the Habs till the end of the year, so no big deal there. Still a great deal for the Oilers, they would have to send a 2nd or a 3rd back as well.
22 nov. 2019 à 16 h 26
#4
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Why would Byron be perfect to play with McDavid? Will he protect McDavid, go into the hard areas, strong enough to battle in front of the net. None of they above. Las Siam is perfect for McDavid. PERIOD.
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22 nov. 2019 à 16 h 35
#5
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Quoting: Copenhagen
Why would Byron be perfect to play with McDavid? Will he protect McDavid, go into the hard areas, strong enough to battle in front of the net. None of they above. Las Siam is perfect for McDavid. PERIOD.


Agreed. McDavid already has 2 linemates that compliment him perfectly, Byron is not going to take either of their jobs.

Tatar is a good 45-60 point winger but he only has a year left on his deal after this one, that certainly isn't worth trading Broberg for. We can sign a similar winger in the summer without giving up one of the best D prospects in the league.
22 nov. 2019 à 16 h 46
#6
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oilers decline dont @ me
22 nov. 2019 à 17 h 1
#7
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Quoting: Copenhagen
Why would Byron be perfect to play with McDavid? Will he protect McDavid, go into the hard areas, strong enough to battle in front of the net. None of they above. Las Siam is perfect for McDavid. PERIOD.


He's one of the very few NHLers that can play up to McDavids speed. Also, yes he will go into the corners and win the puck battles.
22 nov. 2019 à 17 h 15
#8
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Quoting: HabsForEver
He's one of the very few NHLers that can play up to McDavids speed. Also, yes he will go into the corners and win the puck battles.


He is one more concussion away from retiring from the nhl. Nobody can keep up with McDavid puck speed. Drai had 50 goals, over 100 points and he is slower. Do you really think that McDavid speed matters, if you do than you probably didn’t play high year hockey.
22 nov. 2019 à 17 h 20
#9
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Quoting: Copenhagen
He is one more concussion away from retiring from the nhl. Nobody can keep up with McDavid puck speed. Drai had 50 goals, over 100 points and he is slower. Do you really think that McDavid speed matters, if you do than you probably didn’t play high year hockey.


McDavid's explosiveness is what gets him half of his goals. They show him doing it 2 or 3 times a game in which almost all of them ending in high scoring chances. How is he one concussion away from retiring?
22 nov. 2019 à 17 h 30
#10
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Quoting: Copenhagen
He is one more concussion away from retiring from the nhl.


And he's currently sidelined due to knee surgery... you know what that does to a 30-year-old's skating ability, right? Even if he makes a full recovery (it won't be this season) he's on the wrong side of 30 and has 3 more years at $3.4M on his contract. Marc Bergevin just signed him to a 4-year deal two months ago and fans are already trying to get rid of him? No thanks!!
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22 nov. 2019 à 17 h 34
#11
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Quoting: CD282
And he's currently sidelined due to knee surgery... you know what that does to a 30-year-old's skating ability, right? Even if he makes a full recovery (it won't be this season) he's on the wrong side of 30 and has 3 more years at $3.4M on his contract. Marc Bergevin just signed him to a 4-year deal two months ago and fans are already trying to get rid of him? No thanks!!


Fans are trying to get rid of him because we have depth for days. Edmonton could really use some solid wingers if they truly want to contend for a playoff spot. McDavid and Draisaitl can only carry them so far.
You realize he's only played in the NHL full time for 5 years. His body doesn't have nearly the normal wear and tear that a 30 YO would have. Don't act like 3.4 Million dollar is a big contract.
22 nov. 2019 à 18 h 19
#12
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I'm not going to argue whether that is or isn't fair value but I am going to say this. Ken will not be moving his first pick as Oiler GM who he hopes will become a top pairing defenceman for a third line capable of playing in the top 6 and another top 6 winger. The value isn't bad, it's the idea of trading Broberg so soon that gets me. I see Habs fans are saying those are bad contracts you're taking back, not really. Manning can be buried and is done after this year and Russell is a decent candidate to be moved at the draft, one year of him at 4 mill isn't so bad. Mike Reilly is essentially 1 for 1 with Manning. So then it's Russel < Byron, then Tatar <<< Broberg. So value wise I would say the Oilers lose. Long term probably short term no but they have to look to the future. They say sign a guy like Galchenyuk this summer for money this summer like Tatar. Back to my main point, because it's Broberg... no. Also I take it back because I did argue whoops
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22 nov. 2019 à 20 h 30
#13
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There is nobody I would trade on the oilers for Byron, 4 years and often injured lately. Forget it. Nobody, Habs made their bed, lay in it.
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22 nov. 2019 à 20 h 34
#14
MK458
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Big no from Edmonton
23 nov. 2019 à 1 h 33
#15
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Quoting: CD282
Agreed. McDavid already has 2 linemates that compliment him perfectly, Byron is not going to take either of their jobs.

Tatar is a good 45-60 point winger but he only has a year left on his deal after this one, that certainly isn't worth trading Broberg for. We can sign a similar winger in the summer without giving up one of the best D prospects in the league.


Who would that be? For a cap team like Edmonton, signing a 60 Point winger is going to cost upwards of 7 Million. You would have Tatar for 2 more seasons at 4.8 Million. But Montreal rejects anyways.
23 nov. 2019 à 1 h 34
#16
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Quoting: Copenhagen
There is nobody I would trade on the oilers for Byron, 4 years and often injured lately. Forget it. Nobody, Habs made their bed, lay in it.


To each their own. But the current Edmonton team isn't good enough to make a deep run in the playoffs. You have to get depth if you expect to win.
23 nov. 2019 à 3 h 4
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Quoting: HabsForEver
To each their own. But the current Edmonton team isn't good enough to make a deep run in the playoffs. You have to get depth if you expect to win.

Obviously, we are still 2 years away. Nobody is still expecting us to make the playoffs this year.
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23 nov. 2019 à 3 h 16
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Quoting: Copenhagen
Obviously, we are still 2 years away. Nobody is still expecting us to make the playoffs this year.


Which is ridiculous considering it's McDavid's prime. Should be competing every year.
23 nov. 2019 à 4 h 41
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Which is ridiculous considering it's McDavid's prime. Should be competing every year.


Yah well if we didn't have years of a stupid manager trading all our assets............. Is Price in his prime, I am 47 and him and Roy are the best goalies I have ever seen!
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23 nov. 2019 à 10 h 48
#20
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Tempting, at first...
Tatar is competent, Byron is a cap dump..
2 costly 4 next year..-~
23 nov. 2019 à 11 h 12
#21
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Quoting: HabsForEver
Who would that be? For a cap team like Edmonton, signing a 60 Point winger is going to cost upwards of 7 Million. You would have Tatar for 2 more seasons at 4.8 Million. But Montreal rejects anyways.


Kreider is an equivalent player who will likely cost in the $5.8M range.
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25 nov. 2019 à 7 h 22
#22
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Quoting: CD282
Kreider is an equivalent player who will likely cost in the $5.8M range.


I don't exactly agree with that, Kreider has career high of 52 points. And he's always been around +/- 0 Even though NYR were in win-now mode.

Compared to Tatar who put up 58 Points on a non playoff team with a +/- of +21.
25 nov. 2019 à 8 h 26
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Quoting: HabsForEver
I don't exactly agree with that, Kreider has career high of 52 points. And he's always been around +/- 0 Even though NYR were in win-now mode.

Compared to Tatar who put up 58 Points on a non playoff team with a +/- of +21.


You're attempting to frame the issue, but it won't work. Here's why:

a) Kreider's 52 points last year weren't actually his career high
b) NYR weren't in "win-now" mode last year, and haven't been for several years
c) MTL was indeed a non-playoff team last year, but they missed the post-season by a mere 2 points. They were in fact the 14th best team in the league
d) no 2 players will ever be exactly the same, that's not how "comparables" works
e) as far as comps goes, these players are very similar, that's an incontrovertible fact*
f) your argument that Tatar is better only goes to prove my original position that a 2nd line winger is not going to cost $7M, you've just destroyed your original statement

* Tatar and Kreider are the same age, were drafted in the same year, are left-shooting left wingers, have similar career stats and had similar stats last year.

Career stats
Kreider: 481, 138-145-283 +56 (0.287 G/GP and 0.588 P/GP)
Tatar: 530, 151-155-306 +18 (0.285 G/GP and 0.577 P/GP)

Last year
Kreider: 79, 28-24-52 +4 (0.354 G/GP and 0.658 P/GP) on a team that scored 221 goals and was -45
Tatar: 80, 25-33-58 +21 (0.313 G/GP and 0.725 P/GP) on a team that scored 246 goals and was +13

So Kreider was involved in 23.529% of his team's offense vs Tatar at 23.577%.

If you can find 2 players with closer results after 8 years in the league I'd be glad to hear about it.
25 nov. 2019 à 8 h 34
#24
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Quoting: CD282
You're attempting to frame the issue, but it won't work. Here's why:

a) Kreider's 52 points last year weren't actually his career high
b) NYR weren't in "win-now" mode last year, and haven't been for several years
c) MTL was indeed a non-playoff team last year, but they missed the post-season by a mere 2 points. They were in fact the 14th best team in the league
d) no 2 players will ever be exactly the same, that's not how "comparables" works
e) as far as comps goes, these players are very similar, that's an incontrovertible fact*
f) your argument that Tatar is better only goes to prove my original position that a 2nd line winger is not going to cost $7M, you've just destroyed your original statement

* Tatar and Kreider are the same age, were drafted in the same year, are left-shooting left wingers, have similar career stats and had similar stats last year.

Career stats
Kreider: 481, 138-145-283 +56 (0.287 G/GP and 0.588 P/GP)
Tatar: 530, 151-155-306 +18 (0.285 G/GP and 0.577 P/GP)

Last year
Kreider: 79, 28-24-52 +4 (0.354 G/GP and 0.658 P/GP) on a team that scored 221 goals and was -45
Tatar: 80, 25-33-58 +21 (0.313 G/GP and 0.725 P/GP) on a team that scored 246 goals and was +13

So Kreider was involved in 23.529% of his team's offense vs Tatar at 23.577%.

If you can find 2 players with closer results after 8 years in the league I'd be glad to hear about it.



A) My bad, I was a point off, it was 53 points. Last year was Tatar's best year, and he's following it up with an even better one, Kreider's on pace for 46 points.
B) 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 he was a combined +16, NYR finished with 101 Points and 102 Points in those years.
C) Regardless of the fact, Tatar played for a worse team the year he hit his career highs, this year proves last year wasn't a fluke.
D) We compare players, but neither of these players have the same play style in any way or fashion. Only comparable thing is age, which isn't really a comparble in this conversation
F) It's a well known fact that if you want a top 6 winger in free agency, you have to pay for it. 7 Million might've been a little high, but my point still stands. You won't get another Tatar for his contract.
25 nov. 2019 à 8 h 43
#25
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Quoting: HabsForEver
A) My bad, I was a point off, it was 53 points. Last year was Tatar's best year, and he's following it up with an even better one, Kreider's on pace for 46 points.
B) 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 he was a combined +16, NYR finished with 101 Points and 102 Points in those years.
C) Regardless of the fact, Tatar played for a worse team the year he hit his career highs, this year proves last year wasn't a fluke.
D) We compare players, but neither of these players have the same play style in any way or fashion. Only comparable thing is age, which isn't really a comparble in this conversation
F) It's a well known fact that if you want a top 6 winger in free agency, you have to pay for it. 7 Million might've been a little high, but my point still stands. You won't get another Tatar for his contract.


Again with the framing.

Whatever, you can ignore all of the facts that I presented if you want, that just proves to readers that you're wrong. Here's the thing: my original statement is still true.

Tatar is a good 45-60 point winger but he only has a year left on his deal after this one, that certainly isn't worth trading Broberg for. We can sign a similar winger in the summer without giving up one of the best D prospects in the league.
 
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