the nylander trade is about right value considering leafs fans are trying to trade ceci petan and a 2nd for top 2/4 dmen and top 6 forwards...

Moving on from Nylander to get older, less productive winger on shorter term does not make sense for Toronto. Saad would be good in Toronto, but not for Nylander ever.

NO NYLANDER! We're trying to SHED bloated contracts. Not take more on.

in your opinion what would it take to get the Nylander trade? Seems leaf fans want champagne on a beer budget with offering Ceci petan and picks for players. I say that because they don't want to give up much to get good in return. That is why I feel it looked fair from the outside as it helps both.

He brings trade value and his contract is not too harsh for his ability. You could trade him for a 1st rounder on Draft night in the upcoming or future drafts.

I will add, I am not Will Nylander biggest fan but I believe it can help us long term with his trade value growth.

I don't think it's wise to expect Nylander's mediocre stats to continue on the Hawks. He plays with elite talent in their prime. And whether we like it or not...he's not replacing Kane/Toews/Debrincat on the PP AND as crazy as this sounds...and I know it does...he's not a top 6 player on this team. He's not replacing Kane. He's not replacing Debrincat. We could Try him on the #1LW opposite Kane, but we can't have (2) cupcakes on the 1st line. That's why Drake plays up there. Nylander's got speed. He's got vision. He lacks physically / defense. He's not a 2-way player.

You have some very valid points, we could keep saad until next years deadline and get a 1st for him potentially and that would give us a decent draft selection this year and next to help build the prospect pool as we start to blood more of these young guys coming through in the next couple of years. We aren't going anywhere quickly and I mean that in the most literal form as well as the philosophical one so we should look to continue to rebuild or use leverage the picks to get rid of some bad contracts AKA Seabs to give us more balance.

I think you are getting too emotional about Nylander. He is a terrific player that you would love watching. He isn't half as soft as people say he is, and he actually is in fact pretty good defensively. He hasn't been anything but great for TO all season. Often the best or one of the best players on the ice for TO this season. The points haven't come yet but they will. He's just too talented to not pile up the points with the amount of chances he creates. I think currently he's 7th in the league in creating offensive chances at 5v5. He's also see the ice heavily tilted in his direction when he's been on the ice, no matter who he plays with. I think you don't watch him and haven't really watched him but you read some stuff on here and think you know the player. You don't or just don't want to know, because it hurts your arguements but whatever the case, Nylander is not at all the player you think he is. Also, TO doesn't want anything from Chicago, at least nothing Chicago should want to part with. You have some good young up and coming RHD that I am sure Dubas would be interested in, but as I mentioned Chicago shouldn't want to be parting with those so there isn't really any trades here. Gus isn't what TO needs, they have too many better options than him (Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, Sandin all shoot left and I don't think Gus is going to move the needle any more than Dermott or Sandin do defensively) and with Barrie on the team as well, there is no PP space for a guy who's almost entire worth is piling up PP points.

Chicago fans should just stop trading for Nylander and Kapanen.

Agree to disagree. I have watched TOR play. I DON'T hate TOR. I actually enjoy watching them play. I'm 3rd party here. You're very much NOT. I don't watch every single Leafs game, but enough to see that he's a speedy playmaker. Enough to see that he's 100% proven he CAN'T drive a line. He's the recipient of talent around him. MUCH LIKE D STROME (my team the Hawks) is proving. D Strome performs...when he's paired with Debrincat. The fact that you're trying to even debate this proves the bias. Last year, Nylander played poorly because he was "forced" to play with Kadri and didn't get enough time with Tavares or Matthews. (Even though he did play plenty with Matthews...ALOT) Hmmm... Do you WANT to pay someone $7M a year that NEEDS to play with superstars in order to earn their contract? Oh and what's Kadri been doing? Oh He's playing better AWAY from Nylander, also playing better THAN Nylander (center vs wing), and costs $4.5M??? I don't see how that isn't a huge flashing warning sign. The guy that stunk so bad leaves and gets better while costing less.

For the record. The 1 thing we can agree on...is Hawks fans should stop trading for Nylander.

Most of that is absolutely nonsense. Nylander has been terrific all season and tilts the ice heavily when hes on it. He's one of the best players period at controlled zone entries. That isn't because of elite talent, he does that entirely on his own and that benefits the elite talent he plays with to a huge degree. He's also being snakebitten for almost a year. If his shooting percentage was at his career averages, he'd be over a point a game and it'll change, especially since he recently has started aiming lower. He spent too much time trying to pick the corners which if he ever hits one its a goal cause regardless of whatever one says he does have a wicked shot. As for Kadri, he had a bad year until he started playing with Nylander and it also should be pointed out that they didn't spend much time together but when they did, it was pretty good.

You just cherry pick stuff from last season and say its law and ignore the other stuff that proves what you are saying is just way off base. Here is the reality, Nylander has been the far away possession leader for TO since last season. He gets the puck, keeps the puck and creates offense.

It's called supporting evidence and it goes both ways. I agree with you that I do go find evidence to support my point. I also go find evidence to negate your point...Just like you keep saying Nylander "tilts the ice"...when the evidence supports something like Babs says "Hey, Slick Willie. We're ALREADY in the offensive zone. Head out there." Because he's at a career high 63.9% Ozone start this year.

Go ahead and be a fan. That's not the point. Toews is my favorite player. He stinks right now. I can see that.

So what? He's terrific in the offensive zone. What is Babs supposed to do, start him in the defensive zone and give all the offensive starts to the 4th line? Seems like that would be a rather dumb idea. Also Babs is a terrible coach, he's very good at taking young highly skilled players and using them in stupid ways to give vets more time to not do anything. That isn't supporting evidence at all. For example, Nylander is currently holding a massive edge in shot differential when he's on the ice. More than any other Maple Leaf player and its not even close. He's I think 2nd in the NHL at that currently. Ask any Carolina fan how awesome that makes a player. (The Canes have been the gold standard at shot differential for the past 2 seasons) So is Nylander bad at defence? Or is he okay at it or actually pretty good at it and gets the puck moving the opposite direction quickly? This season if you were to watch him, he's been one of the best players on the team and definitely the most consistent, which was his problem in the past, he'd be terrific one night and then look diesengaged the next. That isn't happening anymore. I'll keep Nylander and I'll enjoy watching him become the player I think he's going to be. Which for the record is a top line playmaker who dominates offensively and scores a tonne of points.

I'm not sure he's an elite playmaker, at the moment (though it is true he has been 'snakebitten': maybe there's a reason: boomers say it's cuz he's a perimeter player). His zone entries are pretty consistently awesome (although I get frustrated that he uses the stop up A LOT, from an enjoyment POV lol).

Defensively he has a lot of lapses; it's kind of a "the best defense is a good offense" as far as the stats go. Nylander is good at taking the pass/stretch pass and taking it to the other end, meaning less shots from failed zone exits. Nylander also starts in the OZ a lot. Meaning more shots.

An eye test on his defense shows he leaves players open semi regularly because he's floating back or playing position instead of hounding on the puck a bit more.

That said, away from the puck he looked better vs Washington and his forechecking actually lead to a goal.

TLDR I don't think he's elite at the moment but he has the upside imo (Vision, poise, shot, skating) and the endorsement of Nik Backstrom (who said he could be Sweden's best player soon). If he continues to be engaged away from the puck and diversify his game overall he'd be truly elite IMO.