That's the only way it'd work, but Schenn doesn't want to play LW, and if we make him, he likely won't re-sign. Of course this assumes we want to re-sign him, which we'll never know until it happens.

In no way, shape or form is MacEachern a middle 6 forward. Definitely not even close now, and as he's already 25, almost certainly not ever.

Mhm that's the same age Panarin was as a Rookie. Still progressed. MacEachern has time.

ok, fair but by the same token can you name 16 teams that would put Edmundson in their top 4? I may have worded it a little strongly but I was pushing back on an assertion that Eddy is a no doubt top 4 defensemen. This assertion was also paired with the assertions that Blais and MacEachern were middle 6 guys, that Gusev sucks (but perplexingly should be traded for) and that Vegas would take on any cap when trading Gusev away, all to the point that pushing back on these idea was apparently an attack on the OP worth quote replying to everything I say twice and tagging me in other threads that have gusev trades proposed. So I may have been not have been worried about perfectly nuancing that Eddy is between a top 4 defender and a healthy scratch on any given team, not just a straight up not doubt top 4 guy.

As far as defending it, our idea of Eddy as some great shut down guy comes from a really great season two years ago that was really a decent month then a great second half replacing old, worn down, on a trillion game streak Bouwmeester (boy did he look a million times better with rest and a healed hip this least year, huh?) and pairing with Pietrangelo. That may have been us overrating him based on looking better than Jaybo and having a good linemate. Don't get me wrong Eddy is talented, did have a down year, and is big physical guy, but we have as much evidence of him being terrible with a flash in the pan success run that he cashed in on as we do of him being good and having a down year. I think he's more on the good end of that because I like his physicality, but it's certainly not set in stone that he'll bounce back and his possession numbers were not good at the start of the year (and yeah I know, nobodies were, but that includes him and didn't get better in the second half, he was below average last year).

Also, what is the lingering injury Eddy had in the playoffs? Otherwise I'd point to him being a healthy scratch a lot there and not looking particularly good not that any of him, Gunnarsson or Bortuzzo looked great throughout the playoffs but he was the worst of the three)

wow, clearly the most live or die 2 years of hockey aging known to man. Good thing you are convinced Gusev sucks or you might have proposed a trade for him.

Also I watch tons of Blues games, Gunnarsson was great all year (really our only steady defensemen when even Pietrangelo, Dunn and Parayko were struggling at the start of last season) then got hurt. but you'd know that if you watched more Blues games and didn't just measure talent by contract (that's what we're doing now right? making up over the top strawman insults to sneer down our nose at someone whenever they don't agree with us? You've only don't that twice at least). Also Edmunson was back and (again if you actually watched the Blues games) they were careful and slow to bring him back. If we are discounting performance because of previous regular season injuries, why are we doing it for Eddy and not Gunnarsson and why does Eddy's pre-injury atrocious performance get a pass?

Oh and since you're still on this train, this just isn't what middle 6 player means at all and it's a ridiculous word game you are playing that nobody s falling for. Blais was a decent, physical player who played perfectly reasonable don't notice it defense, didn't really generate offense for others in a heavy forecheck, etc. way that doesn't show up in his numbers, and had 4 points in 32 games (about a 10 point pace being generous). That's a 4th liner/healthy scratch. When you talk in vague assertions of what a player ins as far as [X] line player, it implies from a talent/performance perspective(which can be seen in their defense, numbers, etc.) that they would start in the middle 6 (or whatever line you say) of an average team when everyone is healthy, not it's where they were placed because of how a coach arranged lines(God could you imagine takling like this during the Hitch lineup generator years? Everyone would be a first and fourth liner at the same time like Schrodinger's cat). That is leaps and bounds away from where Blais is as a player. He is a 10 or less point physical guy who plays meh defense and gives you nothing special in any hidden way offensively and it's not because he's some rookie waiting for some big performance jump in year 2 and year 3 a la Thomas(who scored over 30 himself while playing very good defense and having a great forecheck game due to his speed and tight turns/moves although most of that occured int eh second half). Blais is not a middle 6 guy. It is delusional homerism or at best absurd word games (which of course is accompanied by intentional disingenuousness if it's word games) that you are even saying that

LMAO

So comparing Gusev to Panarin (which I didn't do I just said he's the best KHL prospect since Panarin) is absurd, but Mackenzie MacEachern can be compared to Panarin because he's two years younger than Gusev (and we're not talking 35 to 37, we're talking prime, late 20s years) and that makes him Panarin breakout age and thus Panarin like. LMAAAAOOOOOOOOO

Comparing Age is different from the actual play. a 25 Year Old has time to grow. Which he does, Middle 6 is the highest I have for him. He isn't gonna be a Top 6 Player, but you really don't watch Blues games.

And I was also never talking about Blais. Blais is a Checking Line Forward. I am talking about MacEachern, which MacEachern has shown signs of bring up his game even more, but the problem is he isn't getting a lot of playing time, and you are just talking about standard games. Sure he definitely looks like a Fourth Line at best when they play him 8 Minutes a Game. 10 goals in 32 Games a total of 256 Minutes with 10 Goals in that. Average of .039 Goals Per Game. It's kind of hard to make an impact on a checking line, when you don't get a lot of minutes.

Gusev to me could be decent third liner, he has no NHL Experience against NHL Players, played on a larger ice area, so makes him have less space to create his offense. Goalies are better here than in KHL, so has to be more precise. Has no chemistry with the teams he is playing with at all, especially since he only speaks Russian kind of hard to make good Chemistry, but Sure Edmundson, MacEachern, Blais, Kyrou, Bokk, Kostin, Tarasenko, Perron, Schwartz, Schenn, O'Reilly, Parayko, Pietrangelo, Bortuzzo, Dunn, Bouwmeester, Binnington, and every other Blues player is bad, and trash because that's your opinion about the Blues. That's really what it comes down to lmao.

Just keep downing us, I mean that's how this whole thing is for you, and you clearly don't watch games, if you would then you would know when MacEachern got into things as Normal with the team he actually did well, but you wouldn't know that because you only watch what Vegas games.

You have to give me more reason than Gusev did good in KHL to say he is worth Top Prospect, and a First. In a mind you deep ass Entry Draft. Y'all got him in the expansion draft that Tampa didn't try to keep him lmao, how would he be good at 27. He has been so used to KHL ice, he isn't gonna come over well if he was Younger he would probably have a chance, but he has spent so much of his career in KHL, he won't be as good as you suppose he is going to be. 60, 70, 80, 130 Point lol whatever you think he is gonna be. No team is gonna pay that much worth the risk, and if your best Chance is getting a Defenseman who has been really good pre-injury, (not good in playoffs based on rushing recovery) maybe you can get better that way, unless you wanna just keep him, and not be able to sign him, and let him leave next season as a Unrestricted Free Agent.

I'm willing to concede you may have embellished the "majority of teams" statement. We all embellish a bit at times, so no harm, no foul there. I also agree that Eddy isn't a "no doubt" top 4 defender as you say, but I am willing to defend that he has top 4 talent and has played as a top 4 in prior years. I'd also be willing to bet, based on his age and past that he has as good a chance as anyone to regain his past level of play. I also admit that he could have had a "flash" of brilliance before in the past that, like you said, deceived us all. Only time will tell on that, but I'd place my money on the former rather than the latter.

Sammy Blais has done nothing but support his case as a 4th liner in the NHL to this point, but his minors stats as well as little glimpses here and there of his skill-set appear that he could be a legitimate third liner one day. He is certainly a "no doubt" NHL player who brings size (He has grown to be 6"2"), hard-nosed play, and some scoring ability. He'll never be even a David Perron, but he is a very valuable bottom two lines guy. MacEachern thus far looks like a fringe NHLer who can come in and give some guys a break. He has great size, but his skills to me don't scream bonafide starter. He looks like he's one of those guys that are valuable but are likely interchangeable with other guys like him.

I disagree that Gusev "sucks," as he was the top KHL player, but he does have to be evaluated with caution for a few reasons. One, he's small, so the injury factor is always a risk. Two, he's 27, which is not old, but at that age a player usually doesn't improve, so the team who plays him has to be sure he's what they want. Three, and as @BeastModeUnknown pointed out, the European game is very different from the NHL game, and there is a large sample size of guys who failed to make impactful adjustments on the smaller ice. I will grant you that there are also examples of guys who did adjust, but this is again where Gusev's age comes into play. At 27, is there enough time for him to adjust before his skillset begins to erode after 30 years of age? Who knows? It's a gamble though (and one that I think is worth it).

I sort of agree with you that Vegas would like to not take any cap hit back when/if trading Gusev, but if you look at their roster, they still have to spend some cap dollars to put a full team out on the ice. This being said, cap dollars are going to be used on someone just to get to the 23-25 players teams regularly rotate onto the ice. This is one of the reasons I posted a trade earlier that sent Bortuzzo to Vegas with two other pieces. Vegas has to have a cheap third pair RHD, and Bortz is a good one at a low cost. He also plays the style that Vegas plays, so his transition would likely be smooth. The Blues could use another top 6 LWer, and I'm gambling that Gusev could be that guy. Reinke looks ready to play, so he perhaps can fill Bortuzzos minutes.

Dude... c'mon.

No I literally mean it. You don't take upside heavily. if they don't perform well to your standards they aren't good. That's why you blow players off. You probably couldn't tell me anything good on anyone unless they play really good in the minors. Like just because they don't have the basic stats to your standards. "Oh Points, Goals, Assists that's what matters" then I don't think you actually weigh in minutes, you don't weigh in that he has a 55.81 xGF% , and that he has a GF% of 50. You don't count in that he has a Primary Points per 60 minutes of 1.04, you don't count that he has 1.29 Points per 60 minutes.

So if you wanna do the "dude c'mon" role just go back and look at some of the comments you have made, a lot of the trades that you have pitched to other teams based on the Blues is unreasonable. I know upside, you know the Basic Blues team. I have watch MacEachern since he was 18, and I have watched many of the Blues prospects since they were young Teenagers too. You can't expect to think you come up above me thinking you are smarter when I know my hockey. If you think I am r*tarded, then you can probably just f*ck off, I know my prospects, and I know my Blues Prospects Hockey.

You think that oh he had 5 points in 29 Games. He is major Ass so he isn't gonna be any good on the NHL level. WRONG. 5-8 Minutes Per Game is what causes that shortage of points. His P1/60, and his P/60 are way easier to look at.

I've only been straight up since day 1, and you think I'm some sort of idiot. Makes my day worse than it already is.

First of all, I have yet to post an AGM, so I have no idea where you think you saw me propose all these trades. Take it down several notches. I didn't even imply that I think you're an idiot.
However, I did try to talk you down from comparing an obvious plumber to an obvious painter. Panarin is among the best players in the league, and as rookie he put up 30 goals. MacMac has very limited skill, he's a plugger, he may well not ever reach 30 goals on his career total and he's only two years younger. He basically is what he is and that's what he's going to continue to be - i.e. not even remotely the same type of player as Panarin, with an entirely different sort of much smaller impact. I can't believe this even needs to be said.

Hope your day gets better, I really do, but however it progresses it shouldn't have anything to do with me.

I compared Age. Age is a different concept as most bodies are the same when it comes to "prime" years. Mac has 1-2 years of growing.

If he does not have top shelf All-Star skills, he just doesn't have them. He ain't gonna suddenly grow them in two years. Forget Panarin... he's not gonna reach the skill level of Barby, Blais and Sanford. Or even get close, really. That's not even his game.

yeah hard agree on all of this



yeah while I'm not in total agreement on all of this it's pretty well all agreeable and definitely all reasonable, I just don't know where this idea that I don't think Gusev carries risk comes from

I like that you think you found an aha here. I clearly watch blues games and have proven to be more knowledgeable than you in this conversation but if you accuse me of not watching games now everything I say is dumb and void, hooray! Seriously give this up, show some hockey acumen instead of this petty nonsense


Sorry I gave you credit in the heat of the moment, you were talking about the more roster fringey 10 point guy who was less touted as a prospect coming up (in fact almost unheard of until December) and couldn't crack a playoff roster. My bad, I'll remember never to give you the benefit of the doubt


I;m not sure which is more egregious, the idea that since KHL players carry some risk (which prospects and young players do too) that no KHL player could ever succeed in the NHL, or the fact that since I don't think your 4th line faves are secretly middle 6 players I must think that every Blues player sucks, but you sound like a toddler and with your insistence that MacEachern is a middle 6 player and Gusev is maybe a 3rd line guy I still don't get why you would dump MacEachern, Blais and Eddy to get Gusev at a higher AAV than MacEachern. You must think every Blues player sucks


man you love telling yourself this. You sound like a child


who the hell is y'all? I'm a Blues fan, and clearly a smarter one than you

You are clearly a Vegas fan. You are glorifying Gusev right now........If you would've understood the point where MacEachern averages 1.6+ P/60, and 1.2+ P1/60 with a 55 CF%. If you honestly believe MacEachern is that bad as you say then buddy you are the basic Casual NHL fan "He shoots, he scores, or misses" that's how you think Hockey is about. It's about more than that, but you clearly don't understand the fact that a Transition from KHL to NHL is seriously 1 out of 10 Players being successful. Panarin was the first one I have seen to be All-Star worthy of this era.

But anyway good talk, this has been done for like a week now, so Idk why you came back at me with this.....didn't think it would of taken that long to make a comeback. I thought you just left, but you didn't. Keep going on and on about how Blues prospects, and players who don't always make the roster are bad. By your theory that means Kostin, Bokk, Kyrou, Mikkola, Reinke, Husso, and every other prospect in the AHL are bad, so well done.

"iF yOu DoN't AgReE wItH mY TeRrIbLe OpInIoNs ThEn YoU aRe A:
1) casual fan
2) vegas fan
3) doesn't watch hockey "
Not thinking that CF% is reliable in that small of a sample, not thinking MacMac will magic jump to tripling or septupling his production or whatever with 2-5 mins more ice time a night, and thinking a close to finished product that most experts think will jump to the NHL this year might jump to the NHL this year doesn't make me some sort of fool because it's not convenient for you I'm sorry.

Even forgiving you for calling Blais and MacMac both middle 6 earlier now eing just MAcmac and being generous with your strange idea that since KHLers are risky that all KHL players not named Artemi are busts, and ignoring the inconsistent logic that I would give away a "top prospect" in Kostin when you based my Kostin + first take even though Kostin is from Europe too and has shown nothing but the tools we all already knew he had in the European leagues, in fact he's rapidly losing prospect shine, you still ahve to deal with this inconsistent logic that if MAcMac is middle 6 and costs <$1M a year why would you propose a trade for him, Blais, and Joel "top 4 defender" Edmundson for this maybe third line 90% likely busts who will cost $4M AAV?
I'm giving you a lot of glaring passes and forgiving a lot of unfair toddler-esque angst you are heaping on everyone for not agreeing with you if you can just explain that. Please, just explain that and we can go from there but not thinking Macmac is some stra in the making or taht he isn't better than Gusev (who again you want to package Macmac and pay more for yourself) does not make me a Vegas fan or some foolish hockey fan who doesn't watch games. Grow up


It's been since Friday, I didn't log in over the weekend and my itnernet was down eysterday, but hey nice 3 day weeks you got there. Anyway you replied back to me so clearly you care, don't do that "oh look at you getting upset" nonsense when you are every bit as engaged and clearly the one who went 0-1000 when I didn't agree with you


Ah yes, anyone who isn't logged on to capfriendly 24/7 is taking every waking hour of theirs watching your feed then waiting for a comeback to log in. Brilliant.


What prospects did I say were bad? Ad yes, fringe roster 25 year old forwards are not middle 6 players they are fringe roster 25 year old forwards. That's not "bad" (a totally arbitrary threshold that I never established) that's just realizing who Macmac is[/quote]


Where did I in the least imply any of that in any way? You really are on a tantrum and really do rely on a lot of stuff you made up in your head for your argument. Anyway Kostin is less good than Gusev (not gauraunteed long term success way, taht's obviously unpredictable and both are pretty high upside, but as far as jump to the NHL right now and likelihood to ever make the NHL Gusev is the better of the two, plus by all accounts Gusev has higher upside) but I'm not sure why you would include him on your list anyway, I thought anyone who plays on European ice is a bust?

Where did I in the least imply any of that in any way? You really are on a tantrum and really do rely on a lot of stuff you made up in your head for your argument. Anyway Kostin is less good than Gusev (not gauraunteed long term success way, taht's obviously unpredictable and both are pretty high upside, but as far as jump to the NHL right now and likelihood to ever make the NHL Gusev is the better of the two, plus by all accounts Gusev has higher upside) but I'm not sure why you would include him on your list anyway, I thought anyone who plays on European ice is a bust?[/quote]

I check my notifications once a day if I make a comment.

Where did I in the least imply any of that in any way? You really are on a tantrum and really do rely on a lot of stuff you made up in your head for your argument. Anyway Kostin is less good than Gusev (not gauraunteed long term success way, taht's obviously unpredictable and both are pretty high upside, but as far as jump to the NHL right now and likelihood to ever make the NHL Gusev is the better of the two, plus by all accounts Gusev has higher upside) but I'm not sure why you would include him on your list anyway, I thought anyone who plays on European ice is a bust?[/quote]

Where did I in the least imply any of that in any way? You really are on a tantrum and really do rely on a lot of stuff you made up in your head for your argument. Anyway Kostin is less good than Gusev (not gauraunteed long term success way, taht's obviously unpredictable and both are pretty high upside, but as far as jump to the NHL right now and likelihood to ever make the NHL Gusev is the better of the two, plus by all accounts Gusev has higher upside) but I'm not sure why you would include him on your list anyway, I thought anyone who plays on European ice is a bust?[/quote]

I mean I'm not throwing a tantrum, you are more of the one throwing the tantrum right now.....like I show you statistical evidence, you shoot it down because you want to be right, but I mean that's fine. Keep babbling on. Tell me why your flawed theory is right in your opinion.

ignore this it was from the site being goofy

Lol
1) you have accused me of
- not watching hockey
- being a causal fan
- being a vegas fan
- hating every Blues player & thinking they suck
- hating every Blues prospect & thinking they suck
- thinking Gusev is a no doubt top line guy
- ignoring empirical data (when you linked one stat for one guy in too small of a sample to draw conclusions with no source cited and it was the wrong number, MacEachern’s CF% was 49.21%)
- thinking up a reply for a week (even though it had only been 3 days and I don’t live on this site)
All because I don’t think MacEachern is a middle 6 player
2) you were replying to me twice each time until I called you on it (I know you weren’t this last time, it’s just the site being buggy and it is to me too)
3) you tagged me in another person’s thread
That’s being a toddler, you are throwing a tantrum.
For empirical data MacEachern’s CF% was, as mentioned, 49.21, his much more pertinent relative Corsi for% was -4.21%, which is not great, his relative xGF% was -11.9% which is pretty terrible (and I like MacEachern, you can ask the Blues subreddt or my friends, but dude is a fringe roster player period). You can seem my stats (see I actually cite my source! My God how innovative!) here http://corsica.hockey/skater-stats/
I just didn’t use these stats because
1) Gusev doesn’t have stats and we were talking about him too, in fact the main talk was what it would take to trade for him
2) The assertion that MacEachern is middle 6 was just too damned absurd to need empirical data
3) Between the childish insults and the outlandish assertions it was clear empirical data would not matter and you would just scream something something watch the games nerd, as if I don’t watch the games, which you already falsely accuse me of
4) The sample size is just too small to use these things properly
So in short, calm down, figure out who’s theory is a “flawed opinion” (hint: it’s yours), stop throwing a tantrum like a toddler, and either get some perspective while actually working through your contradictory logic until you actually agree with yourself or better yet, get over your trade proposal being not great (I mean hell I didn’t even get back into how Gusev would be a cap dump for Vegas, what cap room do they pick up Eddy with again?)

Good for you?

That's what I use, but you obviously don't under stand what P1/60 means.

You have been on here for a total of 66 posts, you count Blues reddit as a credible source to say Mac never makes Roster ever again. Then you use the same set of advanced stats, but you don't know what half of it is used for, you think Gusev is worth 1st, and the Blues best prospect. (Gusev not worth that much because he is 1 out of his prime, and 2 you wouldn't give up a first in the 2020 first round unless it's for a good cause. Gusev is pretty much just risky business not even worth it), you say Sanford isn't good, you say Edmundson is a fringe starter when before injury he was doing very solid. You are pulling for Vegas. In all obviousness you can't expect to change my mind based on you just calling him a fringe player for no reason, and not have ANY evidence that is relevant here. I put statistical backup, you throw that into the dirt, and in all pureness Middle 6 isn't all that great to begin with, and MacEachern did very solid on the 2nd line against other players Defensively adding in a few points while not really playing many minutes at all during the season. He was effective which is why you can call him a middle 6, but keep downing the Blues like you probably did in the Middle of January, and during every playoff round we lost a game. You are basically the meaning of every St.Louis Blues facebook group their is to offer.

So why not we go our own separate ways, and not speak to each other ever again, because you are a brick wall to talk to, and you get mad every single time I say something......