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JetsHabs blockbuster-Good ol fashioned hockey trade

Créé par: MisstheWhalers
Équipe: 2018-19 Jets de Winnipeg
Date de création initiale: 2 mars 2019
Publié: 2 mars 2019
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I'm expecting outrage.. Lol! Well maybe not a blockbuster but pretty close, this would be a draft day trade. I know it'll never happen.
It does fill a need that both teams have but also creates a hole for both. Sounds like the Habs have more in their pipeline to fill the void this trade would create then the Jets would though.
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2 mars 2019 à 15 h 28
#1
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Jets say no pretty easily. Before injury, JoMo was arguably our best and most reliable D
2 mars 2019 à 15 h 29
#2
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Quoting: arafay
Jets say no pretty easily. Before injury, JoMo was arguably our best and most reliable D


Yeah probably do, he is far and away the Jets best defenseman imo.
2 mars 2019 à 15 h 32
#3
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Quoting: arafay
Jets say no pretty easily. Before injury, JoMo was arguably our best and most reliable D


I forgot to add that I think Ehlers-Domi-Laine would be a really productive line though, I think Domi is the center Laine needs. Wish Chevy would've traded for Domi when the rumors begun about him being on the trade block.
2 mars 2019 à 16 h 34
#4
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No way MTL will trade Domi! He’s their best foward right now and they have Romanov who’s coming to fill their need of LD.
2 mars 2019 à 16 h 42
#5
Jet69
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Oh god no. Morrissey ain’t going anywhere.
2 mars 2019 à 16 h 47
#6
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The left side of the Jets defense looks pretty brutal now.
2 mars 2019 à 16 h 48
#7
Math and Sports
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"Fills a hole for both teams"

The hole for the Jets is Left Defense...
2 mars 2019 à 16 h 50
#8
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Quoting: Breakaway
The left side of the Jets defense looks pretty brutal now.


It already looks brutal with Morrissey hurt.. Lol
Way better down the middle though, gotta give something up to fill a need.
2 mars 2019 à 16 h 50
#9
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Quoting: TheCelt
"Fills a hole for both teams"

The hole for the Jets is Left Defense...


You don't think they also have a hole at C?
2 mars 2019 à 17 h 20
#10
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
I forgot to add that I think Ehlers-Domi-Laine would be a really productive line though, I think Domi is the center Laine needs. Wish Chevy would've traded for Domi when the rumors begun about him being on the trade block.


Scheifele is the perfect C for Laine
2 mars 2019 à 17 h 20
#11
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
You don't think they also have a hole at C?


LD hole is bigger. If laine continues his play they do not have a hole at C. the only problem was a C for Laine. With Scheifele being that C, no need
2 mars 2019 à 17 h 21
#12
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
You don't think they also have a hole at C?


I don't think they do really. I mean this trade can't happen now, so it's a matter of "do they resign Hayes" If they don't then the hole you're suggesting looks a lot bigger, but right now with this mock it's like "why do they need Domi when Hayes has scored at a .85 PPG pace this season? He's a definite top 6 Center and he's the T-72nd best PPG league wide." I looked it up and I'd say there is somewhere around 33 better Centers in terms of Points per game, so he's easily a top 6 center meaning there really isn't a hole at all there.

If you want to say there is a hole at 3rd C, then I guess it could be true although I think Lowry plays better than his numbers would suggest. I However, don't think you trade a top pair defenseman to fix the (hole) at 3rd C.
2 mars 2019 à 17 h 48
#13
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Quoting: Breakaway
I don't think they do really. I mean this trade can't happen now, so it's a matter of "do they resign Hayes" If they don't then the hole you're suggesting looks a lot bigger, but right now with this mock it's like "why do they need Domi when Hayes has scored at a .85 PPG pace this season? He's a definite top 6 Center and he's the T-72nd best PPG league wide." I looked it up and I'd say there is somewhere around 33 better Centers in terms of Points per game, so he's easily a top 6 center meaning there really isn't a hole at all there.

If you want to say there is a hole at 3rd C, then I guess it could be true although I think Lowry plays better than his numbers would suggest. I However, don't think you trade a top pair defenseman to fix the (hole) at 3rd C.


In the description it says this would be a draft day trade so it's for next season and under the assumption that Hayes is signing elsewhere which I think would be for the best anyway.
Also I don't actually think they need a 2C, Little is more than capable and will be for a while yet, I just made this to see what the reaction would be, I'm a big fan of both Domi and Morrissey.
I disagree about Lowry though. I think they need to wake up and see he's just not a 3C and replace him, his point production for his ice time just isn't enough. I know he's effective in his shutdown role but that line needs to produce more than it does, maybe he would if he had different wingers he would but I highly doubt it.
2 mars 2019 à 17 h 55
#14
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This trade doesn't make sense for both team
2 mars 2019 à 18 h 5
#15
Carterman13
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Jets say no
2 mars 2019 à 18 h 6
#16
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Quoting: EzioUchiha
This trade doesn't make sense for both team


Why not? I actually think it makes more sense for the Habs then the Jets. Kotkaniemi and Danault can handle the top two center roles and Domi is too good to be a 3C and with Poehling on the way they could cash Domi in on very good young LHD in Morrissey.
The Jets don't have a replacement for Morrissey but fill a hole at 2C. It'd never happen but I think it actually works for both teams.
2 mars 2019 à 18 h 33
#17
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
You don't think they also have a hole at C?


Absolutely. Little, Roslovic, and Lowry all produce a P/60 of a 2C in the NHL. The trick is finding the right fit for Laine, Connor, Ehlers, and Wheeler. I hope the last few games have shown that Laine really isn't as much of a play-driving liability as he's been made out to be. (Still a play-driving liability, but a liability who generates shots and goals at a high level.) Laine is just a very square peg, that Maurice had been spending half a season trying to hammer into a very circular hole.

On a tangent note: Scheifele, Wheeler, and Ehlers are hands down the most important forwards on this team. They have chemistry with every single teammate they play with and generate offense at an elite level. I'm fairly confident you could put our forward lines together in a way that would be fairly productive. Not as good as they are with Hayes, but still very productive. You just have to build around Laine, Connor, Little, and Roslovic, understanding that certain pairings of those four do not mesh.

On defense it's a little trickier. After Morrissey, and not counting Beaulieu Ben Chiarot is our best defenseman. In terms of Even Strength Chances Against per 60 Ben Chiarot is 56.45 among defenseman who've played 300 minutes, which is good for 104rd in the NHL out of 204. This wouldn't be that bad, but he has played a large part of the year with Dustin Byfuglien. Byfuglien is 21st among defenseman out of 204 which should give you an indication of what Chiarot plays like when he's not getting carried by one of the 30 best defenseman in the NHL. Kulikov is objectively one of the worst left handed defenseman in the NHL for giving up chances, Myers is sufficient, but incapable of carrying an anchor, and Morrow should not be a top 6 defenseman.

As it stands the upgrade of Hayes is a luxury, and considering the price was a late 1st and Lemieux, we robbed the Rangers blind. That being said, luxuries are things we can still survive without. Even if we injured Scheifele, we have three centers who could at least make a claim to having a shot at top 6 minutes. They've either excelled at bottom 6 in a way that indicates they could play top 6 (Roslovic, Lowry) or they play well in the top 6 when they aren't with a winger that slaughters their line's chemistry.
2 mars 2019 à 19 h 17
#18
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Quoting: TheCelt
Absolutely. Little, Roslovic, and Lowry all produce a P/60 of a 2C in the NHL. The trick is finding the right fit for Laine, Connor, Ehlers, and Wheeler. I hope the last few games have shown that Laine really isn't as much of a play-driving liability as he's been made out to be. (Still a play-driving liability, but a liability who generates shots and goals at a high level.) Laine is just a very square peg, that Maurice had been spending half a season trying to hammer into a very circular hole.

On a tangent note: Scheifele, Wheeler, and Ehlers are hands down the most important forwards on this team. They have chemistry with every single teammate they play with and generate offense at an elite level. I'm fairly confident you could put our forward lines together in a way that would be fairly productive. Not as good as they are with Hayes, but still very productive. You just have to build around Laine, Connor, Little, and Roslovic, understanding that certain pairings of those four do not mesh.

On defense it's a little trickier. After Morrissey, and not counting Beaulieu Ben Chiarot is our best defenseman. In terms of Even Strength Chances Against per 60 Ben Chiarot is 56.45 among defenseman who've played 300 minutes, which is good for 104rd in the NHL out of 204. This wouldn't be that bad, but he has played a large part of the year with Dustin Byfuglien. Byfuglien is 21st among defenseman out of 204 which should give you an indication of what Chiarot plays like when he's not getting carried by one of the 30 best defenseman in the NHL. Kulikov is objectively one of the worst left handed defenseman in the NHL for giving up chances, Myers is sufficient, but incapable of carrying an anchor, and Morrow should not be a top 6 defenseman.

As it stands the upgrade of Hayes is a luxury, and considering the price was a late 1st and Lemieux, we robbed the Rangers blind. That being said, luxuries are things we can still survive without. Even if we injured Scheifele, we have three centers who could at least make a claim to having a shot at top 6 minutes. They've either excelled at bottom 6 in a way that indicates they could play top 6 (Roslovic, Lowry) or they play well in the top 6 when they aren't with a winger that slaughters their line's chemistry.


Lowry is on pace for 21 points, with the ice time he gets that just doesn't cut it and he certainly isn't capable of being a 2C, he isn't even a 3C but the Jets won't give up on the dream and conclude that he's a 4C, he's a good shutdown C but that's it and he should be doing that job from the 4C spot.
I'm in full agreeance about finding the right fit between C's + W's and think that line chemistry is more important than almost anything else. I'm not worried about Laine too much anymore, I think he looks better on the top line then Connor did but he better keep up his more engaged play otherwise he'll be a concern again. In my opinion doing what's best for Roslovic playing center is more important than anything else with the Jets roster at this point. If it meant trading for two veteran wingers to support him I would've done that, if it meant sending him down to the minors I'd do that, I think him developing properly at one of the most important positions is crucial to this team and I believe he's more then capable of doing it.
I think a young roster player like Lemieux and a 1st round pick was a pretty steep price actually, if they were willing to part with that they should've of gotten someone with term, sounds like lots of teams were inquiring about Lemieux so I bet his value was higher than most think it is. I'm not even a Lemieux fan but I bet a lot of GM'S and coaches would be very high on him.
As for the defense I'm less concerned about them, more worried about overall team defense then the D core itself.
2 mars 2019 à 21 h 25
#19
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Quoting: MisstheWhalers
Lowry is on pace for 21 points, with the ice time he gets that just doesn't cut it and he certainly isn't capable of being a 2C, he isn't even a 3C but the Jets won't give up on the dream and conclude that he's a 4C, he's a good shutdown C but that's it and he should be doing that job from the 4C spot.
I'm in full agreeance about finding the right fit between C's + W's and think that line chemistry is more important than almost anything else. I'm not worried about Laine too much anymore, I think he looks better on the top line then Connor did but he better keep up his more engaged play otherwise he'll be a concern again. In my opinion doing what's best for Roslovic playing center is more important than anything else with the Jets roster at this point. If it meant trading for two veteran wingers to support him I would've done that, if it meant sending him down to the minors I'd do that, I think him developing properly at one of the most important positions is crucial to this team and I believe he's more then capable of doing it.
I think a young roster player like Lemieux and a 1st round pick was a pretty steep price actually, if they were willing to part with that they should've of gotten someone with term, sounds like lots of teams were inquiring about Lemieux so I bet his value was higher than most think it is. I'm not even a Lemieux fan but I bet a lot of GM'S and coaches would be very high on him.
As for the defense I'm less concerned about them, more worried about overall team defense then the D core itself.


Lowry's an interesting discussion. I think the strongest case for him is a look at what he does for his linemates. Brandon Tanev is having a career year, however the difference between Tanev with Lowry is a 10% jump in 'chances for percentage'. You could say that's a small sample size but he did the exact same thing last year.

Firstly, Adam Lowry always has and continues to be a possession monster. It's an off year for Lowry, but in an off year he is still 4th in shot differential behind Buff, Copp, and Ehlers, and 4th in high-danger-chance differential behind Tanev, Copp, and Appleton. Buff is one of the best defenseman in the NHL, Ehlers is one of the best forwards in the NHL, and both Copp, and Tanev's shot differential goes up when they play with Lowry.

Last season Lowry led all forwards with more than 10 games in the entire NHL in on-ice high danger chances percentage, led the jets in corsi, and was 6th on the jets in scoring per ice time with one of those top 5 being Sami goal-per-game Niku. If the guy had the same national recognition as more household names, and awards were given strictly for the season in question as opposed to body of work, I'm fairly confident he would have been nominated for the Selke, especially considering Nashville's freaking Sissons got a vote. He's having a lesser year this year, but his PDO is well below average. It's a safe bet that Adam Lowry is somewhere in between Selke-top6-caliber forward and excellent defensive bottom 6 forward.

I'm not saying Lowry should be our 2C, more responsibility equates to bigger possibility for mistakes, but I'm not sure what more you'd want to see to at least acknowledge he deserves an opportunity in a situation where someone needed to step up (injury).

I completely agree with Roslovic. I'd rather see Par Lindholm get 4th line minutes, and I would love to see him back in the A playing on a line with Suess and Appleton. Ros did have a pretty solid game against Nashville, so that's definitely something to watch.

And as for Lemieux, he is vastly overrated. He is shooting at 25% over a very small sample size, and is one of the 10 worst possession players in the NHL. Blueshirt Banter actually did a scouting report on their new forward and it's not pretty. https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2019/2/26/18240548/brendan-lemieux-trade-scouting-report-new-york-rangers-winnipeg-jets-trading-deadline-kevin-hayes

Now maybe we could have gotten more for him like you said, but I'm alright with Hayes all things considered. We definitely didn't lose the trade. The 1st is also fairly valuable, but I don't know what you think we'd actually do with it. Aside from it likely being a 25-31 pick, (50% will make NHL, 25% will be a regular NHLer) the Jets have their long-term top 6 and 3 of their longterm top 4. If Trouba leaves I imagine Chevy will swing something that gets his replacement here, or we sign a UFA to a similar deal that Trouba would have had. (Trouba's UFA class is absolutely stacked).
3 mars 2019 à 8 h 39
#20
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Morrissey is absolutely going nowhere. Trouba is gone and Myers is walking to UFA this summer.
4 mars 2019 à 21 h 9
#21
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Quoting: TheCelt
Lowry's an interesting discussion. I think the strongest case for him is a look at what he does for his linemates. Brandon Tanev is having a career year, however the difference between Tanev with Lowry is a 10% jump in 'chances for percentage'. You could say that's a small sample size but he did the exact same thing last year.

Firstly, Adam Lowry always has and continues to be a possession monster. It's an off year for Lowry, but in an off year he is still 4th in shot differential behind Buff, Copp, and Ehlers, and 4th in high-danger-chance differential behind Tanev, Copp, and Appleton. Buff is one of the best defenseman in the NHL, Ehlers is one of the best forwards in the NHL, and both Copp, and Tanev's shot differential goes up when they play with Lowry.

Last season Lowry led all forwards with more than 10 games in the entire NHL in on-ice high danger chances percentage, led the jets in corsi, and was 6th on the jets in scoring per ice time with one of those top 5 being Sami goal-per-game Niku. If the guy had the same national recognition as more household names, and awards were given strictly for the season in question as opposed to body of work, I'm fairly confident he would have been nominated for the Selke, especially considering Nashville's freaking Sissons got a vote. He's having a lesser year this year, but his PDO is well below average. It's a safe bet that Adam Lowry is somewhere in between Selke-top6-caliber forward and excellent defensive bottom 6 forward.

I'm not saying Lowry should be our 2C, more responsibility equates to bigger possibility for mistakes, but I'm not sure what more you'd want to see to at least acknowledge he deserves an opportunity in a situation where someone needed to step up (injury).

I completely agree with Roslovic. I'd rather see Par Lindholm get 4th line minutes, and I would love to see him back in the A playing on a line with Suess and Appleton. Ros did have a pretty solid game against Nashville, so that's definitely something to watch.

And as for Lemieux, he is vastly overrated. He is shooting at 25% over a very small sample size, and is one of the 10 worst possession players in the NHL. Blueshirt Banter actually did a scouting report on their new forward and it's not pretty. https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2019/2/26/18240548/brendan-lemieux-trade-scouting-report-new-york-rangers-winnipeg-jets-trading-deadline-kevin-hayes

Now maybe we could have gotten more for him like you said, but I'm alright with Hayes all things considered. We definitely didn't lose the trade. The 1st is also fairly valuable, but I don't know what you think we'd actually do with it. Aside from it likely being a 25-31 pick, (50% will make NHL, 25% will be a regular NHLer) the Jets have their long-term top 6 and 3 of their longterm top 4. If Trouba leaves I imagine Chevy will swing something that gets his replacement here, or we sign a UFA to a similar deal that Trouba would have had. (Trouba's UFA class is absolutely stacked).


How much is Tanevs success from Lowry and how much is it just him having a career year? And really you've gotta wonder if this is just a one off for Tanev, I'll be shocked if he has a similar season next year, hopefully it's with another team...
A guy can be a possession monster, have good shot differentials and a ton of high danger scoring chances but if the puck isn't going in the net well does it really make that much of a difference? I mean it's all positive but you need to outscore your opponent and he's just not doing that enough.
I think that line works well for what it does and as you say Lowry improves Tanevs and Copps shot differentials but how much of that could just be that those three have chemistry together? I don't think there's enough said about that topic, some guys just work together and others don't. I view it in the same way that Laine and Little don't have chemistry that Copp-Lowry-Tanev have great chemistry but they just don't score enough for the ice time they get as a unit.
Now what I'd love to see is Lowry given some truly talented wingers for a while and see what happens, hell give him Connor, Laine, whoever I don't care and if they start producing then I think it'll prove to me and others that yes Adam Lowry has an offensive touch and can produce at a 3C rate, if not then someone else needs to be brought in to take over the 3rd line center job. Really wish they still had Armia, thought he worked really well with Lowry, had an offensive touch and Lowry's line doesn't look as effective as it did with Armia on it.

I think the way they're handling Roslovic's development is a real concern, 5-7 minutes a night on the 4th line and playing RW is doing zilch for his game.
Unfortunately Seuss' season ended long ago with a shoulder injury and subsequent surgery so Roslovic wouldn't be able to play with him but a Dano-Roslo-Apples line could be fun! lol

I think you're basing too much on Lemieux's streak he went on and not considering his potential enough, he's only 22, there's still room to grow. I'm not much of a Lemieux fan and yeah he may be overrated but if other GM'S and coaches overrate him then cash him in for someone with term. There's plenty of centers and defenseman with term that using Lemieux as trade chip in a bigger package to acquire one of them would've been way better asset management.
What would I liked them to do with the 1st round pick? Use it for something better then a rental for one or draft something they need. Look at the guys that went after the Jets 1st round pick in the 2018 draft, plenty of good young players got drafted that are now quality prospects, plenty of them were centers and defense which are positions of need for the Jets. The Jets prospect pool isn't as good as so many think it is and now it's smaller then it was and the Jets defense needs upgrading plus Buff isn't getting any younger, there's no RHD prospects in the system that look too encouraging. In the 2nd round of last year's draft the Islanders took Bode Wilde and the Canucks took Winnipegger Jett Woo, both are RHD that the Jets could really use in a season or two.
What else they could of done would've been was to trade for Montour, a young cheap RHD who will be RFA in a couple seasons, perfect insurance for trading Trouba in the summer and would allow Chevy to get a package of mostly futures for Trouba rather then a defenseman to fill in right away. Getting Montour would've been a way better use of the 1st+Lemieux, might of had to add another pick but who cares.
I'm just not convinced that this team needed a 2C, a much cheaper to acquire 3C would've sufficed and blowing young players and 1st round picks for rentals is really gonna hurt in a few seasons.
 
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