18 sept. 2020
Flyers de Philadelphie
Deuxième équipe favorite
Sharks de San Jose
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsleaks123</b></div><div>I think you made some valid arguments but I don’t necessarily agree. First of all, Sandin is definitely worth a 1st, try to name 31, even 20 guys, better from his draft class. Second, everyone knows that the Hawks grossly overpaid for Jones (even GMs who take a few years to normally catch on to things) and no one wants to repeat that. If a team offered two firsts to the Yotes right now I would be shocked if they didn’t accept, it’s just no one wants to give up two firsts for him. Your point about going for a defensive guy makes sense, but most of the guys you named aren’t very good (Justin Braun, seriously???), and if you don’t trade Sandin for one of them, then you got four left shot defensemen that can’t play on the right side. I would take a look at any of the Ovs or Jensen, but I don’t think any of them are actively being shopped.</div></div>
Yes Justin Braun seriously. Justin Braun is the perfect bottom-6 defensive d-man who can do top 4 in a pinch. You don't notice him because you're not supposed to. Just because he is "old" doesn't mean he is bad. He isn't as good as like Soucy for example, but you're acting like he shouldn't be in the NHL. If you're an analytics guy, here is JFresh's tweet about Braun when the Rangers got him at the deadline: https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1505951164340355076?s=20&t=ryoBUFXTEq43zh1GNfifEA
Anyways, I get your point but a players worth has really nothing to do with draft class. You mention that most of his draft class sucked, but what does that have to do with his value? Its compared to players currently playing. Draft class has less and less influence over a players career.
I'm a Flyers fan. Honestly, Hakstol did some good things with some of our young guys and roster as a whole. He started putting Couturier as the top center and he broke out big, he put Provorov and Ghost together for their best years ever each, put G on the LW to boost his production and he had a career year, TK steadily grew under him, and he actually played Nolan Patrick a good bit when he was drafted, including PP time in the regular season and in the playoffs against the Penguins.
He also would bench or move down other players in the line up for Andrew MacDonald who was declining so hard that when Chuck bought him out, he couldn't even get a PTO signing in the NHL pre-pandemic. And play Dale Weise on the top PK (though the team was thinner then too).
I don't really like Hak as a coach but I don't feel like he's a Babcock of terrorizing players, especially younger ones. I have no idea what they are doing with Wright and it seems like a ****ty situation for him. I will say this though. Hak basically survived in Philly as long as he did because Hextall wouldn't fire him. Hextall was a mixed bag here, but after they left it became apparent that Hakstol was basically Hextall on the bench and in the line up decisions. I know Canes fans felt Ron Francis drafted ok/good but also was weird about roster/line up deployment. So, I'm curious if maybe this is a Francis problem and Hakstol is really just the puppet/figurehead. I hope he figures it out, I personally like Wright and don't buy the "bad attitude" thing, I think its totally normal to be disappointed about how his draft status went after all the buzz which really isn't his fault as much as the media coverage. He's a kid who plays hockey and likes playing hockey, can't control those narratives and weird "character" things the boys club GMs think about.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>DH28Hockey</b></div><div>"But, I don't know about that return honestly. I agree with the person who said its probably not EDM to do this since they have Nurse. I'd be more looking at like LAK, DET, maybe even ANA. But I also wonder, is he really worth two 1sts? "
With roughly 50% retention I'd say he is. With the retention he is more valuable than Chychrun at this point, and would be a huge addition to a team looking to contend that needs blue line help.
"For TK, if you think Pelletier would be as good as TK to put him there, then why would Calgary do this move? Why don't they save the cap and just use Pelletier?"
I don't think Pelletier is nearly as good as Konecny right now, I didn't even put him in the top-6. I don't think you'll find a better winger on the market for under 3 million AAV with term unless you were to luck out and get a player performing at that level on an ELC, which is highly unlikely.
" Finally, what is this Flyers team's goal in your eyes?"
The goal is to load up on as much draft capital for the 2023 draft as possible, while maintaining as competitive of an environment as possible for younger players to grow in, all while not completely obliterating the cap space structure of the team. This draft is something special, and I believe any team that loads up on picks for this one gives themselves the opportunity to expedite a rebuild/retool by multiple years if they make the right picks.
"Why Horvat at LW and not Gauthier? They are a natural C and LW respectively."
The Flyers intention is for Gauthier to be a C for the organization long term. I think having him play LW in his draft year, C in his draft+1 year, and then move him back to LW in his rookie season would be poor for his development. In this scenario, I signed Horvat because he has experience at LW and C. Ideally he'd fill in at LW on this roster, but with 2 U20 Centers in the lineup I think it'd be wise to have another guy on the roster who has experience playing a top-6 C role, if for no other reason than positive mentorship</div></div>
Interesting. I guess the biggest question to me is: why would all these other teams help the Flyers out so much in getting the draft capital? Yes, they get those players back, but we've seen teams be cautious with the 2023 draft especially (Tampa and Florida being only contenders currently without their 2023 first, Dallas has top 10 protection on theirs). I think I agree with your explained logic of them getting these 1sts in terms of value for value, but I am less sure of a team wanting to make those moves right now to be completely honest. I know he's been injured but look at all the Chychrun flirtation, and how his term would get Arizona more value....well he's still there. And I think especially since the cap is such an issue, teams are a little nervous right now. These are teams that are trying to win now, but I just think maybe its too rich for them.
I think my biggest contention is really this: if you're going to sign Horvat for almost 8 million, Dumba for 6, Soucy for 4, while you still have the Coots sad injury and Ellis being Ellis...why not just keep TK and Provorov? They are younger, still have some term, and if the team plays as decent as they have with Tortorella so far (and likely a new GM) don't they keep you in at least the same if not better cap situation as those guys, while being at least 2-3 years younger? Then if you do want to get rid of them as they become UFA after 2025 they can be more easily moved?
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Goal_Dancers</b></div><div>LMAO trading an AHL player is desperation?</div></div>
No, trading for a bottom-6 depth guy like Archibald would be a desperation move that would be done with excessive injury for a team that is likely still making the playoffs. This happens a lot, when we go "wait, they traded for that guy?" Everyone else here understood that I meant about trading for Archibald, a player they do not currently need but if they were DESPERATE for NHL forward depth, they could make a trade. Also, just since you mentioned "an AHL player", you may want to look at the kind of players that were in the AHL for years before their solid NHL careers: Tim Thomas, Ryan Miller, Mark Giordano, Duncan Keith, Marc Methot, Derick Brassard, Tomas Plekanec.
I like Provorov, I am nowhere near his biggest hater. But, I don't know about that return honestly. I agree with the person who said its probably not EDM to do this since they have Nurse. I'd be more looking at like LAK, DET, maybe even ANA. But I also wonder, is he really worth two 1sts? Then again, Seth Jones got two 1sts. For TK, if you think Pelletier would be as good as TK to put him there, then why would Calgary do this move? Why don't they save the cap and just use Pelletier? I think the return is fine in a vacuum but for their sake, they are trying to win now and good talent on ELC realllllllly helps. Finally, what is this Flyers team's goal in your eyes? I would say with the moves you made, they're looking to win the division. Is that the right plan? They have been surprising us so far this year. Why Horvat at LW and not Gauthier? They are a natural C and LW respectively.