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Forum: Toronto Maple Leafsil y a 10 heures
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>Marner had 9 points in 7 games vs the Bruins back when Babs was the coach. New coach comes in and no one in TO can score.

Our team does what the coach says and it doesn't work.

Keefe is gone.

If you can trade Marner and find value, then I think you can make a strong argument to do so. If it's a trade you lose cleanly, just keep him. JT's money, or most of it will go to the next wave of young guys coming up. Cowan and Minten are going to be really good players along with Knies. The team has good depth, especially if you can resign Domi at 4 or under for 4 years or so.

So fire the coaching staff, get a better replacement. That's the first major step needed. Who knows if it works. I don't believe these guys don't have it in them to win. But the team never scores.</div></div>

I'm taking the whole playoff history into account not just the Keefe ERA or Babcock ERA.

You can only use the coach excuse so much because when Marner and Matthews make as much $$$ there needs to be some self pride there to bring it regardless of what the situation is.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafsil y a 11 heures
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>I think you are massively underestimating how attractive this trade would be for Blake.

It's much easier to sell that he moved Villager and Clarke for Marner than having sold a top 6 PWF for 14 years of dead cap.

If he goes through with the buyout he's likely fired or close to it. This trade buys him time.</div></div>

I'm not sure why you would want PLD as a Leaf. I mean sure, some of us are pissed off at Marner for his current and past playoff performances but we at least know he is a good regular season player.

What is PLD? A guy who plays when he feels like?

If a PLD trade is the best the Leafs can get then I'd rather just ride out Marner's contract and tell him sayonara at the end. It's not ideal but such is life.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafsil y a 11 heures
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Here's my argument for those who blame Keefe for the scoring issues and no I am not letting him off either its just not a clear cut case as many people think

In TOR in 13 of 14 couldnt get more than 3 goals

This was an issue that started game 5 of the TBL series last year so okay its Keefe

Hold on

Game 1-4 of that series TOR scored 3 goals game 1, 7 game 2, 4 game 3, and 5 game 4. Was Keefe not HC then?

Special teams were also good that series to. So what happened between game 4 and now

But after game 4 they just seemed to lose their playoff scoring Mojo to where the one time they scored 3 was with Boston's 1B in net.

Maybe a new coach or system will fix the issue but yea its a problem that needs to get fixed otherwise we go no where. Dont matter about regular season, or whose in net/dcore if we have trouble scoring especially on the PP were going no where.</div></div>

Keefe has definitely been an issue but also part of why this discussion gets muddy is when the team continues to not start on time. We can point that as a coaching issue but at what point are we going to say "hey players wake the **** up and go earn those contracts and accolades media and fans have lauded your way".

Like game 4 of this series...team just didn't start on time and it went downhill from there but we're wondering why we couldn't win in game 7.

Why did it need to get to game 7? Oh...right..they handed games to Boston.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafsil y a 11 heures
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>Now the rant.

Shanahan and Keefe need to be gone. Absolutely no justification for them being with this team next year. Tree get a bit of grace with it being his first year on the job but I want a new president pressuring him to make big changes.

Marner at a minimum need to be gone from the core 4. Tavares is going to be hard to move, but I don’t care, find a way. Buy him out if you have too. And maybe it’s an overreaction but I honestly think a Matthews trade should be explored. How many more crap playoff performances do we need to endure before we hold him accountable. I’m sick of Matthews getting a pass because he’s a generational talent. Trade him and get a massive haul and retool on the fly.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>At this point I want them to look at Matthews trades. We need to stop only criticizing Marner and giving Matthews a pass. Matthews has been crap in the playoffs year after year and every year we go “well he’s a generational talent”. I don’t care, if he’s only going to score 1 goal every playoff round in a random game 2, he’s a useless player.</div></div>

Here's my backup to your point: Imagine where Edmonton and Colorado would be if the likes of McDavid/Draisaitl, MacKinnon/Makar were putting up numbers that Matthews and Marner have these playoffs and past playoffs.

Our top players are paid similar to what other top players around the league make so the production offensively and defensively has to match that of other players around the league.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafsven. à 21 h 56
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafsmer. à 10 h 5
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafsmer. à 1 h 54
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>palhal</b></div><div>Either way, it was heck of a game. It makes you wonder why the Leafs can't play like that more often. Kinda like their winning streak in the west road trip without Reilly. Just go for it.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Its whats so frustrating

Where was this game 1,3 and 4 lul

Play like this in those games dont matter whose in net or missing from the lineup lul

Now their PP and scoring ability is still anemic and a concern but yea better than just laying down and giving up</div></div>

Yep, consistency on starting on time, effort and getting to those tough areas to get those not so pretty goals.

I still don't have expectations for this team because this kind of performance just hasn't been there game in and game out.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafslun. à 12 h 57
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Trickster</b></div><div>Why are people surprised that we lost because we couldn't score enough?
Not me, I called it before the season started that we lost alot of goal scoring but people argued we have the scoring and needed other things to help the scoring come alive.

Proof is in the pudding

I'll admit Domi, Bertuzzi, and Reaves all played better than I thought they might in the regular season however not enough went it matters.

Yes our core group failed to show up yet again but that is not new

Fire Keefe
Trade Marner
Move on from Samsonov

Add new bodies and hope the new additions are enough to spark change, the only other option is to rebuild and gift some other teams some amazing players.

The sell on the Marner trade to me is simple.
Tell him we can't afford you on a new deal give us chance recoup something for you while we can and you can start over somewhere else</div></div>

What player(s) are you thinking of here? In the Marner trade that is.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafslun. à 12 h 56
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>McDavid is the best player in the world. He can make something out of nothing more than anyone else. However they also have the luxury of playing in a much weaker division. LA is not Boston, Tampa or Florida.

Comparing Edmonton and TO is a bad comparison. Because Edmonton goes as far as McDavid takes them and eventually they will take on a team with a defenceman who can slow McDavid down and then the Oilers lose. Happens every year.</div></div>

The Edmonton/Toronto thing was comparing coaching which I pointed out but you ignored that anyway..cool, whatever.

Marner gets paid like a top player in this league so will and should be compared to other top players as well. It comes with the territory.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs29 avr. à 1 h 53
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>I watched some of the jets game today. And comparing their style vs TO's is ridiculous. They skate so fast and pressure you in waves. TO is predictable. They cycle in the offensive zone and slowly. Sure it works in the regular season but in the playoffs. Teams figure it out, keep us to the outside and then we can't score. And Keefe does nothing to adjust. Like zero rush chances with this system. The PP is also predictable as well.

It's systems stuff and adjustments need to be made to attack what the opposing team gives us and that doesn't happen. So it's hard to pin the blame on the core. They have produced, not enough to mask the flaws on the team obviously but they have produced. And that production has come in spite of the poor game planning and coaching.</div></div>

Notice that I named players from many different teams and could have kept going on with that list. But anyway...

I have a comparable for you. From strictly a coaching point of view, Toronto and Edmonton were similar in that Keefe and Woodcroft. I feel similarly about Woodcroft to how I feel about Keefe but the difference has been is McDavid and Draisaitl have been showing up regardless of who is coach.

We'll just have to agree to disagree with the discussion of core guys making a difference.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs28 avr. à 3 h 9
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>Also, leave it to Keefe to not adjust until we've already dug ourselves a ginormous hole. The Leafs aren't coming back from a 3 - 1 deficit against the Bruins.

We say this every offseason, but it's more true now than it ever has been; change <strong><em>needs</em></strong> to come. I cannot stand the thought of having to watch another season of Sheldon Keefe hockey, or the Guy Boucher Powerplay, or the Mike Van Ryn Man-on-Man defensive structure. I don't want to see a single familiar face behind the bench next season. I also don't want to see Samsonov between the pipes, he's too inconsistent and the lows are far too low with him.

It's also startling that the Leafs would ever consider trading Marner. This UFA crop is super weak and that money we'd be saving wouldn't be put to great use. Plus, it's Mitch Marner we are talking about. He's our 2nd best player and a crucial part of this team. You want to know why he doesn't show up in the playoffs? Because Keefes system is dog s***. That's the exact same reason why the other big guys also disappear in the playoffs.

All of this being said, we won't see changes this offseason. Keefe will be the headcoach next season, and the roster will probably be IDENTICAL, just without Bertuzzi and a new RHD.

This team could be so good but we are wasting our contention window by employing a bunch of bumbling idiots to run the show behind the bench. Our blueline contributes next to nothing offensively and also doesn't DEFEND. Sick of this same old song and dance.</div></div>

Did you (or anyone else here) watch the first intermission of the HNIC broadcast?

It's worth watching because Bieska showed 3 different clips of the Leafs lining up for a face-off during a PP in the first period and he basically pointed out that Keefe really doesn't have a system that works.

Now that was only 3 instances..imagine what Bieska would come up with if he had more time in that segment.

That segment was for those who think Keefe is an "okay" coach. Like fire this guy already geeze!

If you have access to the segment, I recommend going and watching it. It's good insight into what's going on.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs27 avr. à 9 h 21
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>BOS is getting almost half of its goals via their special teams

BOS PP is running at 50%, 5 of BOS 11 goals this series have come from it. So I guess the gifting is us gifting them PP's

So far the biggest issue this series is TOR special teams have been a disaster to where every time they take a PP its 90% likely not to score and their PK is so bad might as well just make it 1-0 before guy skates to the box

The other is when they are struggling to score more than 2 goals even with 4 forwards making almost 50m thats not acceptable (Yes I know ones hurt but that amplifies the issue). Basically its to where Sammy or any goalie has to either shutout BOS or allow just 1 goal or they lose. Game 2 might as well be a miracle with the fact they got 3 goals lul

No team is winning with a 9% PP or a 50% PK and for the so called goalie problem last 2 games = 2.59gaa and a 0.919sv that is far from the main problem lul. If anything should be up 2-1 if you could score goals like yah supposed to

Even Dangle mentioned that

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4d0aN-hD75Q

Big boyz combined have 2 goals and 5 points not good

Look how TOR beat TBL


7-2
4-3
5-4
2-1

Game 3 and 4 were multi deficit comebacks lead by Matthews, Marner, etc

We need this kind of scoring from this team especially the big boyz

Gimmie a 5-2 win Saturday Matthews 2 goals, Marner 1 PP goal, Robertson a goal and Kampf as it's do or die</div></div>

Again, all fair points but you just ignored the gifting of 1 goal every game.

About Matthews, game 2 has been his best game so far. In game 3 he was okay but not like he was in game 2.

I don't know if you guys are watching the other series but basically what I'm seeing there is core guys in those series are showing up every game win or lose. I can't claim that for the Leafs.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs27 avr. à 1 h 51
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Game 2 he didnt allow 3 and again in game 3 if this team converted 2 of 5 of those PP's they would win lul

Cant be going oh if Sammy does not allow 3 what if he allows 2 then what? This team 9 of 10 has only scored 2 goals we gonna hope they bring back tied.

Again goaltending is the least of our concerns. Big 4 barely showing up, not being able to score more then 2 goals consistently despite the forward investment, and our special teams being ice cold is the real problems here

What team is winning a seroes with a 9% PP and a 50% PK

No wonder your allowing 3 goals if your opponent scores on almost every PP it gets

How about start not allowing PP goals and start scoring on yours then see what happens lul</div></div>

All your points are fair but also the goaltending can't gift Boston one goal every game as well.

If Boston keeps getting gifted goals, no chance the Leafs are winning this series. If the core guys don't show up for the entire game, every game, Leafs are not winning.

You can only overcome these things occasionally, not 3-4 times in a series.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs25 avr. à 18 h 8
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>

But yea this is something new president of MLSE should talk about with the board and stuff. Look what Masai was able to do with Raptor culture and ****. Tickets aint super cheap but dam fans go wild for em. I bet he fought for affordable pricing, Shanahan or someone should do the same.

As ScotiaBank cant become a Morgue lul</div></div>

Raptors tickets are just more affordable and that's fact because I have been to at least 1 Raptors game a year. You wouldn't catch me at a Leafs game because the ticket prices sky high.

It has nothing to do with Masai but everything to do with greed. MLSE knows they can charge whatever for Leafs tickets and get away with it...it's not quite the same with the Raptors.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs25 avr. à 1 h 54
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Also

https://twitter.com/Bonsie1951/status/1783316265290903980

Man I feel asleep a few times as thats the vibes I got from the crowd. I heard better reactions from Buffalo

Leafs should go play there the Hamilton people be better</div></div>

It's not about "better" because the truth is the hardcore Leafs fans can't afford to even be in the nosebleeds section since ticket prices are so expensive. It's all corporate people mostly and getting them to cheer on the team is like trying to milk a rock.

I can't even remember the last time I was at Scotiabank Arena for a Leafs game.

At least Raptors games still have some affordable tickets depending on the team in town to face them.