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CB2022

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Forum: Armchair-GM25 févr. 2023 à 14 h 51
Sujet: Preparing for disappointment
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>I appreciate the response and it's very well thought out. It's also very cordial and I appreciate the conversation.

I don't agree with "If Kane wants to be traded, you have to move him." That doesn't sound like mutual respect to me. If NYR offered a 7th...do the Hawks need to trade him? I'm hopeful we can agree on no. 100% agreed that I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I'm hopeful that continued mutual respect between Kane and Kyle Davidson is maintained. I'm hopeful that if a 2nd round pick is the max offered, then Kyle Davidson would tell Kane in a polite and calm fashion that The Hawks don't believe the Rangers are giving Patrick Kane the kind of respect he deserves. And that respect is evidenced by the Multiple of subpar players (compared to Kane) being traded for more value even by the Rangers OWN trades. I.E. Drurry doesn't think you're worth what Orlov, ROR, Tarasenko, Horvat are worth. In fact, Drury doesn't think you're worth much close to any of them. OR is Drury trying to play a different game? Is he trying to play the game and pin our relationship against each other.

You mentioned further down about GMs burning bridges. Who do you think is more likely to be burning bridges now? Is it Drury, who's not just offered, but (actions that speak louder than words) transacted on more for a worse player? Or is it Kyle Davidson, who from the Hawks/Kane point of view have all been outspoken that Kyle's been 100% transparent through the entire process? I don't think anyone will think ill will to Kyle Davidson. I do think Drury will burn a bridge with the Hawks and maybe even Kaner.

As for the new breed comment. I do kinda agree with you. Kyle will take players input into consideration more than an old school GM, BUT he's also set some standards that have been quite consistent. Last TDL he didn't trade Kubalik/De Hann/Strome because in his own words...

“If the value’s not met, then you value the player more than anyone else,” Davidson said. “So we’re happy with the players that are here. We value them more than other teams around the league, clearly. We’re happy they’re still with the Blackhawks.” ~Kyle Davidson.

I guess the one thing we really haven't talked about yet is Arthur Staple. I'm hopeful that New Yorkers see how much of a click bait journalist he is. He made up this whole hip thing about a month ago and I'm quite curious how much that played into Drury's mind when he acquired Tarasenko. Because...it's pretty clear so far that Drury is trying to acquire Kane. Those two play the same position. That's why Kaner said the NYR kinda filled that void. If the NYR acquire Kane...that will be telling. Because that move through actions is telling us that need the better RWer. That might also be burning a bridge with Taranseko, but who knows.

***EDIT *** If Jones and Bedard are #2 and #4...then I'm hopeful you'd agree that we can swap out those two in and insert Adam Sykora and another 2nd round pick. That might be acceptable, but I'd still not be 100% satisfied. (2) 2nds and Sykora.</div></div>

Of course. I can always appreciate a good hockey conversation.

In this situation, I think the idea of "mutual respect" applies more to fellow GM's than it does to Kane. To be honest, I think Kane has put the Hawks in a pretty terrible position. When it was first reported that he may be open to a trade, it was said that he would make a decision around January. That would have given Davidson plenty of time to facilitate a trade. I can't help but think that the situation may have been handled differently if Bowman were still GM. That's not to say I think Davidson is handling this poorly (I'm a fan of his work so far), but I don't think Kane would have put Bowman is such a difficult spot.

To your point about Drury, it was reported that he made the Tarasenko trade because he did not want to risk waiting for Kane to make a decision, only to miss out on other potential trade targets. I truly believe that NYR had moved on from Kane, only to circle back once it became clear that they were his preferred destination. From the Hawks perspective, they have made it pretty clear that they will honor Kane's wishes. There was never such a thing said about last season's pending UFA's. So I believe they are obligated to trade him to, if nothing else, simply save face. There is also the risk of not trading him and then having him sign with another team as a UFA on July 1. Again, only a handful of people know what is actually going on behind the scenes. If he is signaling that he is open to signing an extension, then I agree that Davidson should hold out for a better return.

I don't believe there is any scenario in which the Hawks would accept a 7th round pick in return for Kane. I also don't believe that there is any scenario where a GM would make such an offer. That is where the mutual respect between two parties comes in to play. While the return may not include a 1st round pick or Othmann, I think we can both agree that the pieces NYR are proposing (Jones, Kravtsov, picks) have value of some significance. As I said above, if Kane has signaled that he is open to staying, then you have some added leverage in negotiations. But, if he has made it clear that he wants out, trading him for any reasonable return may be the best option.

At this point in the development stage, I believe Jones is more valuable than an additional late 2nd round pick. I'm also a fan of Sykora (who was, ironically, ranked between Jones and Berard), but included Berard because A) the Hawks recently passed on Sykora with the 57th pick and B) Berard was selected by Gorton, not Drury. The value of the deal that you are proposing is practically identical to my original proposal. It is really just a matter of opinion.
Forum: Armchair-GM24 févr. 2023 à 18 h 48
Sujet: Preparing for disappointment
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Vermathex</b></div><div>i would honestly be surprised id nyr gave up this much. everything coming out just seems like the price for kane has plummeted dramatically. still i have absolutely no idea what on earth he will get traded for if he goes at all. only thing im almost 95% sure on is that a first will not be going to the hawks</div></div>

I still think they will have to find a balance between fair-value and a total rip off. As the commenter above you stated, there is a mutual amount of respect in all of this. It may sound ridiculous, but there are plenty of stories of GM's burning bridges around the league by trying to take advantage of other teams. I agree that it's unlikely NYR sends a first or Othmann (basically a guarantee), but they will have to give up something of value.
Forum: Armchair-GM24 févr. 2023 à 18 h 36
Sujet: Preparing for disappointment
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>The NYR Kane trade is such a tough situation. The more this drags out...the more I'm thinking we just keep Kane. I have no issue with him riding off into the sunset. There's supposed to be this mutual level of trust and transparency. To which KD and Kaner have done 100%. We appreciate the comments Kaner makes about his choices and I applaud it too. We also know that Pat Brisson has dealt with this exact situation with Claude Giroux last year. It just feels like (not facts, but feels) Drury thinks he has the Hawks by the balls and is "leveraging"/"taking advantage of" Kyle Davidson.

I really appreciated Kyles Davidson's comments last year. He's been extremely transparent. “If the value’s not met, then you value the player more than anyone else,” Davidson said. “So we’re happy with the players that are here. We value them more than other teams around the league, clearly. We’re happy they’re still with the Blackhawks.” ~Kyle Davidson on discussing what he didn't trade Kubalik/Strome/DeHaan.

There's supposed to be mutual respect in this and if a 2nd round pick is all Drury thinks of Kane. Then Kyle Davidson needs to be the adult in the room and say the same things he said last year. Sorry, the value wasn't even remotely close to meet. What do you want to do now Patrick? Pat, can you help here? Thoughts? This is a joke of a proposal.</div></div>

It is an incredibly difficult situation for a GM to be in. It really comes down to one question... does Kane *want* to stay with the team beyond this season?

If Kane wants to be traded, you have to move him. If he is not interested in signing an extension beyond this season, you have to move him. Only a handful of people know what is going on behind the scenes. I'm sure Drury is negotiating with the belief that Kane wants out. Otherwise I doubt they are even having discussions. I agree that it feels as if Drury is trying to take advantage of the situation. Maybe it will come back to bite him in future negotiations but, for now, it appears that he is okay with using every ounce of leverage.

As for Davidson, I do think he wants to move Kane (as you said, not facts, but feels). He seems pretty committed to the "tank" and Kane's recent hot streak has put them in serious jeopardy of missing out on a generational talent. Put aside the emotional attachment for a moment. It's unlikely that Kane is in the NHL by the time that the Hawks are contending once again. There just doesn't seem like much incentive to not trade + re-sign him. That is unless he specifically tells the FO that he wants to stay. The return may be underwhelming, but the pieces they will acquire are more likely to help them in the future.

One final point, I believe that Davidson is of the new breed of GM's who aren't worried about "winning" every trade they make. Many of the trades he has made so far have been underwhelming, but they all align with his future objectives. I guess we will find out soon enough.
Forum: Armchair-GM2 janv. 2023 à 15 h 58
Sujet: Two potential trades
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>1st trade, IMO, Lafferty has more value right now as he is extremely cheap in terms of cap hit for what he brings to the ice and is signed for another season. JP for $3m isn't worth his cap hit as of now.

2nd trade, I highly highly doubt it takes a 1st to move Zaits...more like a 2nd.

Perhaps a better trade is...

Ottawa gets = Murphy, Lafferty
Chicago gets = Zaits, 1st, JP, 3rd</div></div>

I agree Lafferty has more value now. I'm just not sure what you could realistically get in a trade for him. Would the FO rather have *another* 3rd round pick or take a chance on someone like Puljujarvi?

A first for Zaitsev may be a bit much. But I also think that it will take more than a second to move his contract. New York had to trade 2 seconds (one was a conditional 2nd/3rd) to get rid of Nemeth, who only had a $2.5 million cap hit. That would be the starting point, in my opinion.
Forum: Armchair-GM2 janv. 2023 à 15 h 48
Forum: Armchair-GM1 janv. 2023 à 0 h 19
Sujet: Bedard best fit
Chychrun’s contract will be up in two seasons. You would need to give him a new deal and sign McTavish + Bedard to extensions in the span of two offseasons. That will probably cost upwards of $25 million to do. Possibly $30 million depending on how well Bedard/McTavish play. That is just too top heavy of a roster. Plus, you have Zellweger and Mintyukov, who look like future top-4 defensemen on the left side.

Unfortunately, adding Chychrun, Severson (who I wouldn’t sign to that deal, personally), and Bedard don’t make this team a legitimate contender. I’m not even sure if they’re good enough to make it out of the first round. I agree that they should attempt to put a decent team around the young guys, but they shouldn’t sacrifice future assets or cap space in order to do so. Just sign Soucy to a 3-4 year deal to pair with Drysdale + someone like Schenn or Holl to play the right side. Overhaul the bottom 6 (means getting rid of Silfverberg, Jones, Carrick, maybe Comtois) and let Dostal split time with Gibson. They probably don’t make the playoffs, but they’ll be competitive and in better shape for the next decade.