I think it'd have to be Wallinder instead of Tuomisto, but besides that I think it's fair value.

That's correct, and doesn't make much sense for DET unless Yzerman is planning to extend Ullmark and get a nice return for Cossa/Augustine.

Not really Ullmark is a perfect bridge gap goalie for Detroit sign him 4-5 years and then whatever goalie turns out will become the backup then 1B/1A until ullmarks contract runs out.

Cossa is only 21 and Augustine 19 both are still not for sure gonna turn out yet lots of goalies do well in the AHL/ECHL/ Europe/ Juniors and can’t figure things out in the NHL.

I think giving up Wallinder would be fine considering the depth of d prospects Detroit has, but would probably impact the picks? They would have to be convinced Ullmark is a starter and gets an extension though.


I definitely think having a reliable goalie that either Cossa or Augustine have to beat out to get the job both makes sense but also is in line with how the organisation has worked historically.

Im just talking about including Wallinder. The trade as is is totally fine but no reason to include a prospect like Wallinder for Ullmark, especially because you're gonna have to pay him $6M+ a year

It takes two teams to make a deal. My assumption is the Red Wings cant continue with Husso/Lyon. There are enough teams that need goaltenders that this package probably gets passed on. My assumption is Cossa could become the backup while developing in the NHL

I believe the package would be Buium or Wallinder plus a second. Tuomisto’s time at Denver probably isn’t a positive here. I thought he was OK when I saw him last year. Probably would be third or fourth in Providence in terms of quality

I understand, which is exactly why I said what I said.

I was pointing to your statement saying there was no reason to include a prospect like Wallinder and the trade was fine as is. If your offer centers around a 2nd round pick. It’s probably getting beaten. My guess is Sweeney’s preference is to send him to the west if all things are equal.

There is no reason to include Wallinder, from DET perspective.

If Ullmark was 25, maybe.

This was kind of my thinking too - lots of teams with goalie needs and Detroit kinda has a surplus of good d prospects, they're not all going to fit. Might be time to use one to fill another hole in the lineup to take the next step?


Ok then do Buium, doesn't really matter, point still stands. Gotta give something to get something. What's your solution in net for Detroit that doesn't give up assets?

Wait for the two good prospects we have to develop and dont give up potentially valuable assets for a stop gap, pretty simple.

Ullmark doesn't make this team any better than it is. Their issues are in front of the net, not in it.

Edvinsson, Al Johansson, Wallinder, Buium, Tuomisto, Sandin-Pellikka, Gibson, An Johansson, these are all pretty decent to really good d prospects that Detroit has - assets that can be used to improve the team, you can afford to sell on one. If you extend Ullmark to hold down the fort until/if Cossa or Augustine turn out good, I don't see how that's a stopgap, or is every signing a stopgap?

This team currently has a backup that got burned out towards the end of the season in Lyon and Husso that is a question mark if he's ever getting back to form again after getting rough injuries for a goalie. "Issues not in net", huh?

Edvinsson is a Red Wing, ASP is looking good and won't be traded. The rest of those guys will probably never be regular NHLers, but Wallinder looks like a REALLY good prospect. This is just about Wallinder, any of those other guys I'd trade no problem. You don't trade a prospect like Wallinder for a 30 year old goalie, especially on a team that isn't contending for anything. That is bad asset management.

For example, if we packaged Wallinder in a trade for Hanifin, that is something that makes a lot of sense. A young, cost controlled piece whose age lines up with the rest of our core.

Don’t believe Wallinder and a second rounder would have gotten you Hanifin. Maybe it gets you Chychrun if you prefer to go down that route, but you are left with your current goalie situation. Can’t tell if you view that as a negative. I would

lol do you know how to read? When did I say a 2nd and Wallinder would get you Hanifin?

The goalie situation right now is irrelevant. Lyon was fantastic this year and Husso was hurt....

A GSax/60 barely above zero isn’t great. I personally hope that Detroit goes with Lyon and Husso too, but probably for different reasons than you

That's a team stat, not a goalie stat. Lyon was incredible this year, anyone actually watching the Wings would know that.

Keep trying though, it's working.

How is goals saved above expected a team stat exactly? Oh right. He faces and saves more high danger chances?

Our definition of incredible is different. Like I said, I would prefer you not sign a goalie and miss the playoffs again

Reading random stats is easier than watching hockey.

Then again, those stats also indicated that Jeff Petry was a better defenseman for Detroit than Mo Seider lol.

Did they? Which one? Nobody who’s watched both those players would ever say that.

Some stats are less useful than others, but GsaX is a pretty useful stat in rating goalie effectiveness. Hell of a lot more effective than save % which is often a team based stat.

I’ve watched plenty of Alex Lyon over the years. He goes on good stretches, but is inconsistent and it’s backed up by this stat. Over the course of the year, he saved just about what was expected of him. Never been a fan of Husso.

I like what I saw out of Cossa in Grand Rapids. Thought Augustine was OK at Michigan State. I’ve probably watched more of those two than most Detroit fans

The Athletic's stat boy was indicating Petry was better right up until the last month of the season lol.

Much like advanced stat nerds were talking about how Detroit's shooting percentage was ungodly and unmaintainable because rather than actually watch a game, they put numbers in their computer and reported the bull**** it spat out. Detroit's shooting percentage was absurd because they refused to shoot until they had the perfect opportunity open net, and it was mind-numbing to watch most nights.

Lyon bailed Detroit out more than he was a burden to them. Problem is he got hung out to dry by absolutely dog **** defense most nights. Much like how Ned can look good before Detroit, awful in Detroit, and back to good outside of Detroit. Much like Husso can look good before Detroit and look like **** once he gets here.

Goaltending isn't the problem. **** defense is.

I’m not a fan of a lot of the Athletic stuff. I also don’t believe all stats are relevant, but this one (GSAx/60) is pretty useful for goalies.

I see goaltender and defense as a problem for Detroit, but I also see young players on defense who are more ready than the goaltenders

I can tell you from watching probably 85% - 90% of the games over the last three years that it's defense lol. Is Lyon playing like Vasilevsky? No. But he's not letting in soft, easy shots left and right. Whereas you can go watch highlights from December or March and see Detroit's defense over and over and over again either allowing an odd-man rush (Or flat out breakaway) half a dozen times per game, failing to clear traffic in front of the net, losing their man, etc.

The game versus SJS in December (Maybe late November) is a peak example. If you really want a glimpse of Petry's defense all year, pull up the highlights from DET vs. CAR in early March. The first goal he literally pinches over to the left to double cover the puck carrier while completely abandoning his own man that's rushing in toward the net.

I do agree somewhat that we're better positioned in the near future for defense than goaltending. On the left side we'll be set very soon with Walman, Edvinsson, and one of AlJo/Wallinder. Right side is a **** show though. ASP is a boom/bust prospect and likely wont see the NHL until mid-season 25-26 at the earliest, if not 26-27.

Cossa and Augustine both had great years. I'm just not a fan of rushing goalies at all. Honestly, I'm not a fan of counting on goalies at all. Outside the league's consistent elite, they're all over the map. Great one year and **** the next.

This is a classic example of yet another poster losing trace of the argument.

You can argue Lyon's effectiveness all day long, it doesn't matter. The point is trading Wallinder for a 30 year old goalie is dumb - simple as that.

How many times have you watched Wallinder or Buium play? Do you have the AHL package or do you go to Grand Rapids games?

How about Ullmark?