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Getting a bit stronger

Créé par: FlameFlameFruit
Équipe: 2024-25 Sabres de Buffalo
Date de création initiale: 26 avr. 2024
Publié: 26 avr. 2024
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I see a lot of Buch to buffalo trades. Does Buffalo really need another skilled winger? I watched their game when they were in Detroit recently, and more skilled players is NOT a need.

This team needs more of a veteran presence and a heavy hitter on the back end. Instead of signing Clifton, Gudas would have been a great add.

I think building a stronger bottom 6 and finding a tougher RD to play with power should be a necessity. Also, adding a bit of veteran presence to a very young team is ideal as well.

Clifton: Buy him out. With how he's played this season, he's a 6/7D making 3m too much. It's a relatively cheap buyout that'll only cost 1.1m in the last two years. Easy does it.

Jokiharju: No idea what the obsession with him is for some Sabres fans. He's beyond soft, not the greatest puck mover, and not another type of defenseman the back end needs.
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UFAANSCAP HIT
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Transactions
1.
BUF
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2024 (FLA)
  2. Choix de 5e ronde en 2025 (SJS)
Détails additionnels:
If OEL looks for more money in FA, Joki could be a decent add as a puck mover for the bottom pairing and could play with Kulikov
FLA
  1. Jokiharju, Henri [Droits de RFA]
2.
SEA
  1. Krebs, Peyton [Droits de RFA]
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2025 (MIN)
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26 avr. à 14 h 38
#1
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you saw exactly one game and now know exactly what the sabres need, detroit should hire you! (kidding all in good fun)

Yes they need buchnevich. Its not skilled wingers they need, but they also dont need heavy hitters. They had a terrible time generating offense that wasnt off the rush once teams took notice.

They need more two way talent, thats what buchnevich is.
26 avr. à 14 h 46
#2
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Quoting: Stadel
you saw exactly one game and now know exactly what the sabres need, detroit should hire you! (kidding all in good fun)

Yes they need buchnevich. Its not skilled wingers they need, but they also dont need heavy hitters. They had a terrible time generating offense that wasnt off the rush once teams took notice.

They need more two way talent, thats what buchnevich is.


I know that the back end needs more shut down ability, not more puck movement. Joki is softer than hot butter.

Buch is pretty solid defensively, but you're going to have to dip way into your prospect pool, more than you'd probably want to, to acquire him (this is also because STL likely has no real interest in trading him). Not to mention, when his contract is up, it'll cost a pretty penny. I don't think another top 6 forward is a need. You're hoping guys like JJ, Benson, Kulich, Savoie, Quinn,,, will all eventually take that leap forward. JJ has already started to

I think getting bigger and stronger on the back end, as well as building a better bottom 6 is what the focus should be in the offseason.

I didn't really include it here, but maybe adding a decent bottom 6 vet presence will help as well. The team has the scoring, it just needs the rest.
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26 avr. à 14 h 52
#3
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Quoting: FlameFlameFruit
I know that the back end needs more shut down ability, not more puck movement. Joki is softer than hot butter.

Buch is pretty solid defensively, but you're going to have to dip way into your prospect pool, more than you'd probably want to, to acquire him (this is also because STL likely has no real interest in trading him). Not to mention, when his contract is up, it'll cost a pretty penny. I don't think another top 6 forward is a need. You're hoping guys like JJ, Benson, Kulich, Savoie, Quinn,,, will all eventually take that leap forward. JJ has already started to

I think getting a big bigger and stronger on the back end, as well as building a better bottom 6 is what the focus should be in the offseason.

I didn't really include it here, but maybe adding a decent bottom 6 vet presence will help as well. The team has the scoring, it just needs the rest.


This is where your opinion might have changed if you saw more of them throughout the year. people say defense is the issue but its kind of a misnomer. The biggest issue all year was that Granato did not know how to coach his forwards to be more structured in his own end without totally caving offensively. His solution was essentially to stop rushing, and take no risks. This is partly cause he was probably in over his head, but its also because most of the Sabres forwards aren't particularly good in their own end. Thats one of the driving factors for Benson making the team at 18. He was un ironically one of their better defensive forwards at 5v5 lol

The blue line isnt perfect, but power and dahlin are going to carry. I would be thrilled to upgrade on the right side especially over samuelsson and clifton. But they need their forward group to find a way to both play with more structure in their own end and turn the defense into offense when they retrieve the puck. Speaking of which, they are also a horrible cycling team lol. Benson was also one of their best forwards there. So it wouldnt hurt to add one or two guys that can do that.
26 avr. à 14 h 59
#4
rktkt66
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Sabres are not going to be trading young players for draft picks - that's the opposite of the 'win now' urgency they're now endorsing.

If anything, given that the AGM in Seattle (Botterill) traded for Jokiharju when he was Sabres' GM, there's a better chance of the Kraken possibly considering him in a swap for Borgen, given the similar age and career trajectory each has had. I'm not sure what kind of 'shake-up' that Francis is rumored to be considering but if the Sabres could land Gourde as a possible 3C in a deal, that'd certainly fill several of their needs (2-way agitator with Cup experience and leadership qualities).
26 avr. à 15 h 0
#5
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Quoting: Stadel
This is where your opinion might have changed if you saw more of them throughout the year. people say defense is the issue but its kind of a misnomer. The biggest issue all year was that Granato did not know how to coach his forwards to be more structured in his own end without totally caving offensively. His solution was essentially to stop rushing, and take no risks. This is partly cause he was probably in over his head, but its also because most of the Sabres forwards aren't particularly good in their own end. Thats one of the driving factors for Benson making the team at 18. He was un ironically one of their better defensive forwards at 5v5 lol

The blue line isnt perfect, but power and dahlin are going to carry. I would be thrilled to upgrade on the right side especially over samuelsson and clifton. But they need their forward group to find a way to both play with more structure in their own end and turn the defense into offense when they retrieve the puck. Speaking of which, they are also a horrible cycling team lol. Benson was also one of their best forwards there. So it wouldnt hurt to add one or two guys that can do that.


Getting better on the right side would help alleviate some of the defensive mishaps from your less defensively minded forwards.

During that game, there were multiple defensive collapses on the rush because Detroit played the puck with the body and guys like Power and Joki didn't know what to do. Adding players like Borgen and Chatfield can help solidify that back end (or any players LIKE them) and not have Samuelsson be the ONLY DFD on that back end. He doesn't have to do it all. It adds better penalty killers as well.

Instead of paying Clifton 3.3m this past offseason, give 4 to Gudas. He's been lights out in ANH and is exactly the kind of RD Buffalo needed.

The year prior, BUF was one of the better offensive teams in the league. They just had 0 help from goaltending or defense. This season, a lot of their offensive mishaps can be chalked up to Granato being a doorknob. The team has plenty of offensive talent. Building a better supporting cast on the right side and bottom 6 will help take pressure from the guys in the top 6 from having to do it all.

Sending a massive package for Buch is the last thing Buffalo should consider doing when their issues can be fixed with much cheaper additions, ones you can make without clogging your pipeline of extremely gifted young forwards.
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26 avr. à 15 h 2
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Quoting: rktkt66
Sabres are not going to be trading young players for draft picks - that's the opposite of the 'win now' urgency they're now endorsing.

If anything, given that the AGM in Seattle (Botterill) traded for Jokiharju when he was Sabres' GM, there's a better chance of the Kraken possibly considering him in a swap for Borgen, given the similar age and career trajectory each has had. I'm not sure what kind of 'shake-up' that Francis is rumored to be considering but if the Sabres could land Gourde as a possible 3C in a deal, that'd certainly fill several of their needs (2-way agitator with Cup experience and leadership qualities).


I considered adding Joki in the Seattle trade. I just didn't end up doing it. Joki was only moved here to clear space on the right side. And with whatever picks you get, could possibly be moved for an upgrade.

In the end, I just did it to clear him off the team.

I like the idea of Gourde. He's older, but could be a good vet presence. I also like the idea of getting a bigger 3C, though.
26 avr. à 15 h 11
#7
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Quoting: FlameFlameFruit
Getting better on the right side would help alleviate some of the defensive mishaps from your less defensively minded forwards.

During that game, there were multiple defensive collapses on the rush because Detroit played the puck with the body and guys like Power and Joki didn't know what to do. Adding players like Borgen and Chatfield can help solidify that back end (or any players LIKE them) and not have Samuelsson be the ONLY DFD on that back end. He doesn't have to do it all. It adds better penalty killers as well.

Instead of paying Clifton 3.3m this past offseason, give 4 to Gudas. He's been lights out in ANH and is exactly the kind of RD Buffalo needed.

The year prior, BUF was one of the better offensive teams in the league. They just had 0 help from goaltending or defense. This season, a lot of their offensive mishaps can be chalked up to Granato being a doorknob. The team has plenty of offensive talent. Building a better supporting cast on the right side and bottom 6 will help take pressure from the guys in the top 6 from having to do it all.

Sending a massive package for Buch is the last thing Buffalo should consider doing when their issues can be fixed with much cheaper additions, ones you can make without clogging your pipeline of extremely gifted young forwards.


Im sorry but i cant make an assessment based on one game. Like sure power may have had a bad game. his overall impacts for the season are very good, especially at his age.

I agree clifton was a granato fuelled mistake. But you should probably consider: if the Sabres had to pay EJ 3+ mil to sign with them, and give Clifton term to sign with them, doesn't that indicate their ability to recruit FA's is basically zero? Its not fair to say oh they should have just signed gudas instead. Like what makes anyone think he would have?

Again, this is a misnomer. They didn't get zero help from their blueline. Dahlin was literally one of the best defensive d-men in the nhl last year. They simply played no structured defense lol. They were a total run and gun team that took everyone by surprise. When the league adjusted to that, Granato needed to adjust and simply didnt know how to. 100% agree the supporting cast needs to be better. This is where hopefully the bets theyve made on Kulich and company can pay off.

I'd like the right side of the blue line to be better, but its not why they were bad this year. For starters, Dahlin plays the right side. So in reality their right side might already be as good or better than left simply cause their best guy plays there.

I absolutely want some better defensive d-men in general, but the breakdowns in their own end all year were mostly on the forwards. And in particular, its on the forwards to be ready to transition from defense to offense. The number of times Dahlin and Power were able to recover the puck in their own end and then not find a single forward ready was staggering. Thats probably mostly age and coaching, but some better two way talent couldnt hurt.

It doesn't need to be buchnevich, but the cool thing about that is it pushes 1 guy down each line to a spot where they probably do much better. Tuch on the 2nd line with peterka and cozens? sign me up. Benson and Kulich on the same line. hot damn now were cooking lol
26 avr. à 15 h 34
#8
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Buying out Clifton all but ensures that nobody will sign with you in free agency anymore. Giving away Jokiharju is plain stupid, if you’re going to trade him get something of value. We all like Will Borgen. But if you want him, instead of overpaying, how about you just wait a year and get him back for free?
26 avr. à 18 h 52
#9
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Quoting: FlameFlameFruit
I considered adding Joki in the Seattle trade. I just didn't end up doing it. Joki was only moved here to clear space on the right side. And with whatever picks you get, could possibly be moved for an upgrade.

In the end, I just did it to clear him off the team.

I like the idea of Gourde. He's older, but could be a good vet presence. I also like the idea of getting a bigger 3C, though.


I see more of what you see. I don't think all of the high end forward prospects stick though, very similar skill set, I can see a couple being moved for the help you suggested. Was watching the Leafs-Bruins games, it's a different sport from what the Sabres play. I think 3c that can legit play two way and win a draw, has got to be high on the Sabres list. Honestly, I'm not sure the Sabres are gonna do anything with their d, but I'm with ya, I would move out 2-3 d and go after a very different skill set.
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27 avr. à 1 h 41
#10
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Quoting: Tjm220
Giving away Jokiharju is plain stupid, if you’re going to trade him get something of value.


What REAL value are you getting for a 4/5RD who's not really bad at anything, but not great at it either? A 3rd and 5th is a fine price, imo.

I didn't overpay for Borgen. He's expiring and they might look to move him, and Krebs is a young center Buffalo doesn't really need. A lot of young center talent in the system and you can move Krebs for an area of need.
27 avr. à 1 h 42
#11
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Quoting: Tjm220
Buying out Clifton all but ensures that nobody will sign with you in free agency anymore.


Or it just shows you need to live up to your contract. Clifton sucks.
27 avr. à 10 h 19
#12
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Quoting: FlameFlameFruit
What REAL value are you getting for a 4/5RD who's not really bad at anything, but not great at it either? A 3rd and 5th is a fine price, imo.

I didn't overpay for Borgen. He's expiring and they might look to move him, and Krebs is a young center Buffalo doesn't really need. A lot of young center talent in the system and you can move Krebs for an area of need.


Quoting: FlameFlameFruit
Or it just shows you need to live up to your contract. Clifton sucks.


Trading away Lyubushkin in the final year of his two-year deal when it was clear he was the extra defender that wasn’t going to play, Is totally different than giving away Clifton in year two of his three year deal. He started off this year pretty badly, I think there’s no one disputing that. But he did get better as the year went on.

Like I said before everyone likes Borgen, including Seattle, so they probably want to hang onto him. But if they are chasing their tails by the trade deadline, he is definitely going to be someone teams will be calling about. That’s when you’d see a return like this for him. Krebs hasn’t really been given the opportunity to play 3rd line center, I think they plan on letting him play with someone who can actually skate before deciding to cut bait. Using Kulich as the fourth line center would just be a waste, I don’t know if they see him as a center but he’s definitely going to get more ice time than the grinders.

Resigning Robinson would be pretty pointless, he was about as effective as Rousek was whenever you saw him out there. That’s a younger guy I would be willing to trade away. Upgrading the bottom six with guys who are not afraid to go to the net and stay there is what Buffalo needs. I think on that we are agreed.
 
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