Quoting: Jded
The entire argument about Zegras’ deal is still speculative and just your opinion. Just because you would sign him to an 8 year deal doesn’t mean that’s every GMs preference. And I can already poke at least one hole in your comparisons because Jim Nill outright said he doesn’t believe in signing players to massive long term deals off their ELC. It wasn’t Ben/Seguin’s deals that tied his hands. He just didnt want to give it. Still, almost certainly a part of their core. A situation doesn’t need to be the exact same to imply the same thing. A bridge deal doesn’t mean management doesn’t believe in the player, nor that the player isn’t a part of their long term plan. It simply means they didn’t want to give a long-term deal at that time
Everything about prospects is speculative. 30-40%+ of your favorite top 10 picks will become 3rd liners or worse in the NHL. Happens every year. I’m very happy with the locked in top line winger we have already, rather than rolling the dice on someone
You’re still not listening. Never said Evans has no value. He has no value to ANA. We’d be flipping him. SEA has a ton of valuable prospects they could trade. Anyone who thought Evans was the one to send didn’t spend 10 seconds looking at ANA’s strengths/needs. Thats just a fact. He would never be included in a trade to ANA because they already need to move out LD talent this year because of their logjam. Don’t over complicate it. It’s that simple
I’m certain that no trade for a LHD, and 2 2nds would be considered for Zegras. Because it means the high end asset that ANA actually needs is a diluted version of what they’d actually consider if they weren’t sold on Zegras, which would be a Lindstrom type. Not to mention this hilarious offer includes Gibson, don’t forget
Quoting: Jded
The entire argument about Zegras’ deal is still speculative and just your opinion. Just because you would sign him to an 8 year deal doesn’t mean that’s every GMs preference. And I can already poke at least one hole in your comparisons because Jim Nill outright said he doesn’t believe in signing players to massive long term deals off their ELC. It wasn’t Ben/Seguin’s deals that tied his hands. He just didnt want to give it. Still, almost certainly a part of their core. A situation doesn’t need to be the exact same to imply the same thing. A bridge deal doesn’t mean management doesn’t believe in the player, nor that the player isn’t a part of their long term plan. It simply means they didn’t want to give a long-term deal at that time
Everything about prospects is speculative. 30-40%+ of your favorite top 10 picks will become 3rd liners or worse in the NHL. Happens every year. I’m very happy with the locked in top line winger we have already, rather than rolling the dice on someone
You’re still not listening. Never said Evans has no value. He has no value to ANA. We’d be flipping him. SEA has a ton of valuable prospects they could trade. Anyone who thought Evans was the one to send didn’t spend 10 seconds looking at ANA’s strengths/needs. Thats just a fact. He would never be included in a trade to ANA because they already need to move out LD talent this year because of their logjam. Don’t over complicate it. It’s that simple
I’m certain that no trade for a LHD, and 2 2nds would be considered for Zegras. Because it means the high end asset that ANA actually needs is a diluted version of what they’d actually consider if they weren’t sold on Zegras, which would be a Lindstrom type. Not to mention this hilarious offer includes Gibson, don’t forget
I already admitted that my argument was speculative, but it is completely rational. Also your Jim Nill example proves my earlier point about GMs saying stuff to the media that they don’t mean. Nill said he doesn’t believe in signing players to long term deals off their ELCs but you can prove he doesn’t actually think that because he signed Heiskanen to one. Nill can’t say the actual reason why he didn’t sign him to a long term deal because it would bring down Seguin and Benn, so he just said he doesn’t believe in those deals. For that same reason you can’t take what coaching and Verbeek said about Zegras as being entirely truthful. Every GM says stuff they don’t actually mean. If you’re trying to trade someone you’re not gonna trash talk him, and if you didn’t find a deal you liked then you wouldn’t say that you shopped him when he has 3 years left, that would ruin morale. Also you aren’t listening at all to my point about bridge deals vs long term deals. Not every situation is the same, for the leafs and stars they needed to bridge because every dollar counts when you’re trying to win now. The ducks were not competing when the contract was signed, and they probably won’t for the duration of the deal. The ducks were in the perfect situation to sign Zegras to a long term deal, but they chose not to. If they signed him to say an 8 by 8 or something like that, Zegras would not have been worth it now, but that wouldn’t matter because the ducks aren’t competing so overpaying him for the meantime wouldn’t matter. And then later in the contract, when you are actually competing then Zegras would hopefully be worth more than the 8M cap hit which would be perfect for a competitive team. The ducks were in a position with minimal risk to lock him up long term, with chance of seriously high reward, but they didn’t want to sign him long term. Also even if I’m over speculating Into the bridge Zegras is still likely a secondary part of the core, Carlsson, McTavish, Gauthier, Mintyukov, Zellweger, Dostal and whoever they get this year are likely going to be the main pieces of the ducks core, and they already extended Terry long term. There is only so much money to spend and all of those guys are going to need huge pay raises right around the time Zegras’ bridge deal runs up. Since the ducks opted to bridge Zegras they are likely going to have to sign him to a more expensive contract than they would have been able to sign this offseason. And when you need to give a pay raise to 3-7 more important players to your team then Zegras would be the odd man out. These are things GMs keep in mind, you aren’t just living in right now, you look ahead to where you’re going to be. The ducks have shown that are more confident in McTavish and Leo, that’s why they moved Z to wing, they gave up on Jamie Drysdale and a 2nd to get Gauthier so they are clearly very high in him. Mintyukov and Zellweger look like clear franchise defenceman, you’re probably gonna get your franchise RHD this year and they should be a huge part of your core. When you have that many guys that you believe in more than Z then you seriously have to look ahead and consider the possibility of trading him. He is at his peak value right now because he’s making fairly little money, which is ideal for contenders, while still being under contract for 2 more years, and being an RFA after that.
Yes you are completely right about prospects being not guarantees, I totally agree. But to be a successful GM you have to take risks sometimes. And again I was talking about the flexibility that having a second first would have. If Anaheim gets a top 2 pick they could grab either Celebrini or Demidov who are both more valuable and project to be better than Z, and then if they trade him they could address the need for defence as well. Or if they took Levshunov and a prospect that they loved fell to Seattle then they could take him instead of Zegras and they could get someone that suits the system and role better. Zegras has been playing better in the system this year but it doesn’t really fit his style of play. With this pick they could potentially get someone that fits better into their scheme. So yeah prospects are just guessing, but also assuming you know how a team feels about a draft or a prospect is just as much of a guess.
Again I already agreed that LHD isn’t the ducks priority and would’ve be their desired add. But my disagreement is that you think he provides no value to Anaheim at all. A good player is a good player regardless of position. Also if you actually thought about what I said in my comment that you replied to you would realize that your Ducks literally run multiple double LHD pairs right now, so they clearly don’t care that much about handedness. Evans can upgrade over Vaakanainen, and move up to fill Fowlers role when he leaves. So yeah even if he isn’t the most desirable position or prospect for the ducks, your notion that he adds no value to them at all is a very closed minded and not factual argument.
My whole argument is that you are looking at Zegras in a vacuum. Yeah he’s a good player, but is he really going to be worth the big deal when you need to extend sooo many guys?? I don’t know, and Im not sure if the Ducks know either. All that I’m saying is that when you said that there was no chance that the ducks would even consider this package at all is not true. You mentioned Lindstrom but you forgot about the possibility of Celebrini. Even if it is like an 11% chance you get him, that is still an 11% chance that this trade would make total sense to pull off. So if there is a very possible scenario where this deal makes sense then you can’t say the ducks would never ever even think of this trade. Also you mentioned Gibson being the deal like I was arguing about that part, in my first comment I specified that my point was that package would be enough for Zegras ALONE, which was replying to a comment saying that it wouldn’t even get Zegras.
Finally, like I already said, yeah this deal is not happening, but it’s not because Anaheim would say no under any circumstance. It’s not happening because it doesn’t make sense for seattle to give up that much for a guy that has never shown he can win at the NHL level.